Why do 'pro' players play in rookie servers?

Slyfox101Slyfox101 Join Date: 2012-11-11 Member: 169370Posts: 58Members
edited February 2013 in NS2 General Discussion
Anyone have an answer for this?

Also, I recently saw a YouTube video (All-In|ADHD's 'frag' video) that was basically 4 minutes of him (supposed 'pro' player) owning the worst aliens I have ever seen, presumably in a rookie server.

I notice players with the clan tags of 'All-In' and other various 'pro' clans playing together, stacking teams, on rookie servers. Just trying to make sense of it.

Also, are there any teams that are popular in the FPS e-sports world that actually play this game? So far, all of the teams I've heard of are brand new or specific to NS2.

Responses are appreciated. :)

EDIT: I realize I didn't post a solution for this, as that is not my job, but I suppose an easy fix would be to make it so only rookies could join rookie friendly servers. Not a 100% fix though, as you can turn rookie mode on and off at will.
Post edited by Slyfox101 on
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Comments

  • FappuchinoFappuchino Join Date: 2012-10-10 Member: 162008Posts: 281Members
    Well, the game's been out for a while, and sometimes it's difficult to join servers, not because of the lack of them, but just the lack of servers that aren't empty or full. I like 18-20 player servers, and I usually have to wait a while if I want to join them. Besides, it's hard to hell who's a rookie and who isn't because the rookie tag isn't strongly integrated into the game.
    Madd0gPhyrefli
  • Slyfox101Slyfox101 Join Date: 2012-11-11 Member: 169370Posts: 58Members
    stuff

    Ok, cool. But I'm sure that this process is different for everyone and doesn't exactly explain why the experienced players knowingly stack servers that are intended for new players.
    Fappuchino wrote: »
    Well, the game's been out for a while, and sometimes it's difficult to join servers, not because of the lack of them, but just the lack of servers that aren't empty or full. I like 18-20 player servers, and I usually have to wait a while if I want to join them. Besides, it's hard to hell who's a rookie and who isn't because the rookie tag isn't strongly integrated into the game.

    Fair enough, but it's easy to tell based on the skill of a player. Oh, and that clan tag they wear in public games. (for some reason)

  • Slyfox101Slyfox101 Join Date: 2012-11-11 Member: 169370Posts: 58Members
    CarNagE1 wrote: »
    Its not rookie only just rookie friendly...

    And somehow this changes the fact that these servers are intended for new players? Part of the reason they are 'rookie-friendly' is because most of them are filled with rookies. Not experienced players.
    SampsonAurOn2BestProfileName
  • nezznezz Join Date: 2012-12-11 Member: 174712Posts: 287Members
    did they go for the all-in stomp?
  • Slyfox101Slyfox101 Join Date: 2012-11-11 Member: 169370Posts: 58Members
    edited February 2013
    IronHorse wrote: »
    Rookies will learn from better players more than they will learn from other rookies.. provided the better players are communicating and actively helping.

    Rookies do not join rookie-friendly servers to learn from pro players. They would join a normal server to do so.

    Again, the main reason these servers are labeled as 'rookie-friendly' are because they are intended for new players to play in an environment with other new players. If you were a new player, joining a rookie server, getting killed over and over again, losing the game horribly because the enemy team was stacked with 'pro' players in a supposed rookie environment, would you want to come back to the game and play more? (experienced FPS players obviously will, most of those players skip the rookie stage anyways)

    This is actually what caused a few of my friends to stop playing the game. They do not believe they can find a comfortable environment to play in that actually allows them to learn the game at their own pace.
    nezz wrote: »
    did they go for the all-in stomp?

    It wasn't my intention to pick on 'All-In' in this thread, but that is the only team name I can remember doing this.
    Post edited by Slyfox101 on
    geggis
  • FappuchinoFappuchino Join Date: 2012-10-10 Member: 162008Posts: 281Members
    Slyfox101 wrote: »
    stuff

    Ok, cool. But I'm sure that this process is different for everyone and doesn't exactly explain why the experienced players knowingly stack servers that are intended for new players.
    Fappuchino wrote: »
    Well, the game's been out for a while, and sometimes it's difficult to join servers, not because of the lack of them, but just the lack of servers that aren't empty or full. I like 18-20 player servers, and I usually have to wait a while if I want to join them. Besides, it's hard to hell who's a rookie and who isn't because the rookie tag isn't strongly integrated into the game.

    Fair enough, but it's easy to tell based on the skill of a player. Oh, and that clan tag they wear in public games. (for some reason)

    By the way, if you're bemoaning the attitude of 'big guys' picking on 'little guys', I agree with you. Not every player is the same of course, but people seem to adore the feeling of having bested something far above the "dishonrable-ness" of how unfair and easy it is. Battlefield 3 for example, is filled with players using the easiest M16A3 (most all-round effective gun), just because they can, just because they wouldn't win as much without it.

    Same goes for any multiplayer game that pits players against other players. For whatever reason, the best players always end up on the other side, because otherwise, they'd quit and not take a beating.

    It's just the way it is. I'm not sure why people don't like challenging themselves equally, or making things funner and more difficult for themselves, but there you go.
    geggis
  • xDragonxDragon Join Date: 2012-04-04 Member: 149948Posts: 1,802Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    Generally most 'pro' players wouldnt play in rookie servers, especially not with other teammates... and generally anyone that is highly skilled makes frag videos of pcw/scrim games only, so its really just the average or slightly above average players that make those videos or stacking teams in pubs. Its an unfortunate situation that doesnt really have a good solution (some admins just random teams). As for professional teams in NS2 there are not any.
  • Slyfox101Slyfox101 Join Date: 2012-11-11 Member: 169370Posts: 58Members
    edited February 2013
    Fappuchino wrote: »
    stuff

    Agreed. Again, my intention was not to pick on anyone, I'm merely curious as to why this stuff happens. Pro players In DotA 2 play pubs for fun, not to practice or show off their skill. Because they know it does not take much effort to own new players who have little to no teamwork. There is also a matchmaking system in DotA 2 to help curb that.

    From what I have observed in the past few years, competitive players are a huge help to keeping a game popular/retaining players. Once a player is done figuring out the basics of the game, it's usually the pro players that motivate them to become the best they can possibly be.

    But instead, I see the 'pro' players in this game driving new players away by providing a not-so-encouraging rookie environment to play in.

    (I keep quoting 'pro' because I'm not sure that they really are professional about the game, just play it more than anyone else)
    xDragon wrote: »
    stuff

    This makes sense. Perhaps the players I have observed are just 'weekend-warriors' that like to think they are pro because of the clan tag they wear, and the noobs they own.
    Post edited by Slyfox101 on
  • Slyfox101Slyfox101 Join Date: 2012-11-11 Member: 169370Posts: 58Members
    IronHorse wrote: »
    Rookies join rookie servers to learn.
    If a better player is helping with that, with communication and tactics ,"stop biting the powernode and help with X" then i see no issue like i said.

    If, however, the better player has brought friends and stacked one side and is not helping the rookies learn, then that's a completely different story and a good admin should take care of that.

    I have only observed the latter, I have never seen a good player purposefully helping rookies in a rookie server. Also, good admins seem to be few and far between. (I play on a lot of different servers) There seem to be just as many corrupt admins as there are helpful ones.

    And then what about official servers?

    Phyrefligeggis
  • neighbsneighbs Join Date: 2012-09-11 Member: 159024Posts: 41Members
    Rookie friendly doesn't mean, "If you are better than a rookie don't join." I usually join them because of good ping and have been questioned why I'm there when no one can kill me alien side.
    MestaritonttuSampsonZefram
  • Slyfox101Slyfox101 Join Date: 2012-11-11 Member: 169370Posts: 58Members
    edited February 2013
    neighbs wrote: »
    Rookie friendly doesn't mean, "If you are better than a rookie don't join." I usually join them because of good ping and have been questioned why I'm there when no one can kill me alien side.

    Doesn't this kind of highlight my point? Rookie friendly is not about your perception of the phrase. It is literally what it says, rookie-friendly. By joining as an experienced player you are making the server significantly less rookie-friendly.

    What other reason is there to have rookie-friendly servers?
    Post edited by Slyfox101 on
    RegnarebMestaritonttuBestProfileNamegeggis
  • IronHorseIronHorse CDT Technical Support & QA Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 6,471Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Community Dev Team, Pistachionauts admin
    Slyfox101 wrote: »
    And then what about official servers?
    If you really need an admin for an official server you can contact me on steam.
    Or email me ironhorse@unknownworlds.com
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
  • Slyfox101Slyfox101 Join Date: 2012-11-11 Member: 169370Posts: 58Members
    IronHorse wrote: »
    Slyfox101 wrote: »
    And then what about official servers?
    If you really need an admin for an official server you can contact me on steam.
    Or email me ironhorse@unknownworlds.com

    Oh cool, much thanks! :)
  • CiroCiro Join Date: 2013-01-09 Member: 178392Posts: 213Members
    Another player recently posted a topic like this. The simple answer to your question is, because they are near full. The alternative is waiting in a queue or idling on an empty server (wait for someone to join, play 1v1 till it fills, play a real match the following round), gathers, organizing a match (which can be challenging for casual players).

    The issue is understandable and difficult to answer. If another free weekend comes, it may exacerbate the issue.

    The issue go both ways, due to the lack of admins. Rookies join regular (not rookie friendly) servers. They don't get kicked and bring down the experience for intermediate/advanced players. There are fewer places for better players to just load up and go.

    What the server owners want is important to. I'm guessing most just want a full server. Kicking/banning people, because of their status (rookie, not-rookie, league veteran), isn't an attractive idea.

    Based on my experience, what IronHorse says is correct. Rookies can learn from better players and still enjoy themselves on rookie servers. As long as the good players don't have ridiculous expectations, give constructive advice, and maintain a light tone, the experience should be enjoyable for everyone.

    If the better players are berating their rookie teammates, while taunting the opposing rookies, and/or making racial remarks, they can go ---- themselves. Admins shouldn't tolerate that crap, I wouldn't.
  • Slyfox101Slyfox101 Join Date: 2012-11-11 Member: 169370Posts: 58Members
    Ciro wrote: »
    stuff

    This response is greatly appreciated. The perspective of it going both ways was not something I considered, but does point out how this issue is not one-sided.

    I think the greater issue is people finding an environment that they are comfortable playing in at their own pace. Currently, rookie and non-rookie servers do not accomplish that.

  • NarfwakNarfwak Iowa City Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5258Posts: 3,706Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, Community Dev Team admin
    edited February 2013
    IronHorse wrote: »
    Rookies will learn from better players more than they will learn from other rookies.. provided the better players are communicating and actively helping.
    This. And, as mentioned previously, the bias towards availability and low ping is going to outweigh all other considerations when trying to find a server.

    I've had the pleasure of helping out a rookie (or, often times several rookies) by answering questions almost every round that I've played on rookie servers.
    Post edited by Narfwak on
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  • CommunistWithAGunCommunistWithAGun Local Propaganda Guy Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Posts: 7,661Members
    Slyfox101 wrote: »
    Anyone have an answer for this?

    Also, I recently saw a YouTube video (All-In|ADHD's 'frag' video) that was basically 4 minutes of him (supposed 'pro' player) owning the worst aliens I have ever seen, presumably in a rookie server.

    I notice players with the clan tags of 'All-In' and other various 'pro' clans playing together, stacking teams, on rookie servers. Just trying to make sense of it.

    Also, are there any teams that are popular in the FPS e-sports world that actually play this game? So far, all of the teams I've heard of are brand new or specific to NS2.

    Responses are appreciated. :)

    EDIT: I realize I didn't post a solution for this, as that is not my job, but I suppose an easy fix would be to make it so only rookies could join rookie friendly servers. Not a 100% fix though, as you can turn rookie mode on and off at will.

    play on adminned servers

    who cares if someone made a frag video, if they feel good about nuking random pub players, then god help them.
    user posted image

    #BATTERY
    NarfwakUnderwhelmed
  • ColtColtColtColt Join Date: 2012-06-27 Member: 153707Posts: 131Members
    Slyfox101 wrote: »
    Ciro wrote: »
    stuff

    This response is greatly appreciated. The perspective of it going both ways was not something I considered, but does point out how this issue is not one-sided.

    I think the greater issue is people finding an environment that they are comfortable playing in at their own pace. Currently, rookie and non-rookie servers do not accomplish that.

    A skill-based, twitch shooter FPS game isn't going to be overtly friendly to new players, unless you implement a set of rules or policies (or game mechanics) to intentionally isolate and separate new players from experienced players, and that isn't a smart idea at all. It's one of those "Welcome to the harsh world of NS2" kind of things; just because a players' new to the game doesn't mean they should have some lush, casual experience where everything's hand-fed to them. They should be thrown to the dogs, so that they can grow and develop as a player, and get an appreciation for the nature of the game. A high-skill ceiling game like ns2 has no room for structural care-bearing and hand-holding.

    When said "Competitive" players were new, they too got sat on and stomped on, that's part of the growth and reality of any game with a decent skill ceiling. Stifling this will just lead to later disappointment on both sides of the fence, and less overall players and full servers.
    Deity|DFA| HavocMad selectiongeggis
  • SixtyWattManSixtyWattMan Join Date: 2004-09-05 Member: 31404Posts: 708Members
    Why do you care?
    IronHorseMad selectiongeggis
  • luminalumina Join Date: 2012-06-15 Member: 153300Posts: 154Members
    It has already been said, but it clearly needs said again. It is rookie friendly, not rookie only. This simply means you don't rage when rookies do rookie things. You help them instead. If rookies do rookie things on non rookie servers, they won't get the same respect.

    If you can't enjoy a game because you are losing, that is not anyone elses problem.
    Deityneighbsgeggis
  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Posts: 1,193Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    edited February 2013
    OH STOP WHINING ABOUT "it's not rookie only" ALREADY, you all know what he means, he means good/experienced players going on rookie servers to stomp people. Just lol.

    If someone is hitting 50/5 on a rookie server he really needs to grow some balls, period. Unless of course there really are no other servers for him. Atleast in EU I've never ever seen a lack of normal servers.

    EDIT: Easily solved though, > 100 hrs playtime can't join rookie servers, win?
    Post edited by Mestaritonttu on
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    SampsonDeityHamletgeggis
  • SavantSavant Join Date: 2002-11-30 Member: 10289Posts: 2,073Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    CarNagE1 wrote: »
    Its not rookie only just rookie friendly...
    I don't know about you, but if one player was owning all the rookies, I wouldn't call that very "friendly" to me. Yeah people learn when they are challenged, but you don't learn squat sitting in the spawn queue.

    A guy who plays in a pick-up basketball game a couple times a week won't learn anything if he plays with a bunch of NBA players. There is a point when player skill differential is so great that nothing can be gained from it.

    Hamlet|DFA| Havocgeggis
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 11,450Forum Admins, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue mod
    lumina wrote: »
    It has already been said, but it clearly needs said again. It is rookie friendly, not rookie only. This simply means you don't rage when rookies do rookie things. You help them instead. If rookies do rookie things on non rookie servers, they won't get the same respect.

    If you can't enjoy a game because you are losing, that is not anyone elses problem.

    Too bad the Human race consists mostly of trolls though :P

    That's why we can't have nice things...

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  • FrothybeverageFrothybeverage Join Date: 2003-02-15 Member: 13593Posts: 848Members
    I join rookie servers if under any or all of the following conditions:
    My real life Friends are on them.
    The server has a low ping.
    There are no low ping regular servers with players and/or open slots.

    With that being said:
    If I am significantly better than any player on the server(Going 35/40 - 4/5 as a fade), I will command if able.
  • JAMESEARLJONOSJAMESEARLJONOS Join Date: 2012-12-15 Member: 175155Posts: 194Members
    edited February 2013
    It's funny to me how the OP seems to think as if there are dedicated high skill pub servers.

    Newsflash: Every pub server, regardless of it having a rookie friendly flag, has the same caliber of play.

    The rookie friendly tag doesn't mean anything, and it's not something anyone cares about on either end. There's no meaningful difference in the quality of player among the most popular servers:

    TBGclan, Mavick's Pub, Voogru, National Gaming, KKG, Jedi's Loft, Random UWE server.

    There is zero effective difference in overall skill on any of those servers. The average player regardless of server is always at a terrible and low level of skill. It's like that on any NS2 server that's currently up. The game simply does not have the player base to maintain a "competition pub" for any length of time. The people you're complaining about would wreck any pub they decided to join, with their only alternative being not to play. Simple as that.
    Post edited by JAMESEARLJONOS on
    UnderwhelmedDeitygeggis
  • FrothybeverageFrothybeverage Join Date: 2003-02-15 Member: 13593Posts: 848Members
    edited February 2013
    It's funny to me how the OP seems to think as if there are dedicated high skill pub servers.

    Newsflash: Every pub server, regardless of it having a rookie friendly flag, has the same caliber of play.
    The rookie friendly tag doesn't mean anything, and it's not something anyone cares about on either end. There's no meaningful difference in the quality of player among the most popular servers:

    TBGclan, Mavick's Pub, Voogru, National Gaming, KKG, Jedi's Loft, INSERT SERVER HERE.

    There is zero effective difference in overall skill on any of those servers. The average player regardless of server is always at a terrible and low level of skill. It's like that on any NS2 server that's currently up. The game simply does not have the player base to maintain a "competition pub" for any length of time. The people you're complaining about would wreck any pub they decided to join, with their only alternative being not to play. Simple as that.

    Those statements are based on anecdotal evidence.

    Clan servers tend to have a higher calibre of player than other kinds of servers.
    Rookie servers tend to attract more rookies(legitimate green namers), but there are a lot of rookies on regular servers too.
    Typically I see 3-4 green names per side on rookie servers, and 1/2-3 on one or both sides on a regular server, at least on the weekends.

    Like many games, NS2 tends to have more people playing on friday/saturday/sunday than any other days of the week.
    Then again perception of "skill" may just be luck of the draw as well.

    I've found that servers with 20+players have less skillful players on average.

    Ironic that my argument was also based on anecdotal evidence.

    There's no real way to judge which servers have the "most skill", because that depends on the area you're in.
    On the west coast of north america, there is a lower number of servers available than there is on the east coast.

    Assuming you are central, or east coast, the chances of having a large choice of servers(comparatively) is going to skew your results.
    The chances of all the "good" players being on the same server, at the same time is lower than it would be as someone on the west coast.

    I don't know about you, but I seem to run into the same people at around the same time every day, no matter which server I'm on.
    In my "area" there's about a dozen players that I run into on a regular basis that basically "let me know" that the game isn't going to be a walk in the park.
    There's no-one that makes me go "aww man, this is going to suck this guy is freaking awesome.", but there are people that make me say "This guy presents a challenge".

    I suppose that's one of the bonuses of having a small community.
    You start to recognise players.
    Post edited by Frothybeverage on
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