It's time to stop beating around the bush

RanemanRaneman Join Date: 2010-01-07 Member: 69962Posts: 450Members
The Real Issue
Flamethrowers. An iconic weapon in NS2, however, at 30 res, it is the most expensive in the game. It also does the least DPS, and your average T1 skulk can solo a rine while under direct flamer fire.

We need to address this weapon. Personally, I see fire as a symbol of purging and cleansing, so why not have it do triple damage to infestation, double damage to structures? That would make it a useful close-range cleaning tool, more risky then GL but with a greater reward.
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  • RisingSunRisingSun Rising Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28015Posts: 875Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    QUOTE (Raneman @ Apr 20 2012, 06:47 PM) »
    Flamethrowers. An iconic weapon in NS2, however, at 30 res, it is the most expensive in the game. It also does the least DPS, and your average T1 skulk can solo a rine while under direct flamer fire.

    We need to address this weapon. Personally, I see fire as a symbol of purging and cleansing, so why not have it do triple damage to infestation, double damage to structures? That would make it a useful close-range cleaning tool, more risky then GL but with a greater reward.


    haha, this is about the last item on the list of "Things needing to be done". Thread title for my attention though.
  • QuovatisQuovatis Team Inversion Join Date: 2010-01-26 Member: 70321Posts: 1,014Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited April 2012
    The Flamethrower burns spores and umbra, and makes whips incapable of whacking grenades. It's getting more uses, but I agree the cost should be 25, not 30.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Posts: 1,850Members
    If this is the real issue, what do strategic depth for the Kharaa and devastatingly effective Shotguns count as?

            Once the infestation reaches the Command Chair, the process begins. One Gorge enters the chair to provide the necessary height. Another climbs on its shoulders to access the controls.

            A Gorge Lab is quickly established, staffed by microscopic Gorges who work tirelessly to unlock the secrets of Frontiersman Technology, stopping only to change their lab coats when they become dirtied. Once the research progresses to a certain point, the Gorgecom gives the order. Nanites are called into service.

            The armature forms. A chosen Gorge, tested many times in the field of battle, enters the machine.

            Servos whir; miniguns spin up in diagnostics; an Exogorge is born.

  • RanemanRaneman Join Date: 2010-01-07 Member: 69962Posts: 450Members
    Well, it is in the game's title. "Flamethrower Alien Simulator 2012"
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  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Posts: 1,850Members
    QUOTE (Raneman @ Apr 20 2012, 01:56 PM) »
    Well, it is in the game's title. "Flamethrower Alien Simulator 2012"

    Ah, my apologies.

            Once the infestation reaches the Command Chair, the process begins. One Gorge enters the chair to provide the necessary height. Another climbs on its shoulders to access the controls.

            A Gorge Lab is quickly established, staffed by microscopic Gorges who work tirelessly to unlock the secrets of Frontiersman Technology, stopping only to change their lab coats when they become dirtied. Once the research progresses to a certain point, the Gorgecom gives the order. Nanites are called into service.

            The armature forms. A chosen Gorge, tested many times in the field of battle, enters the machine.

            Servos whir; miniguns spin up in diagnostics; an Exogorge is born.

  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Posts: 2,022Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester
    Aliens should only catch on fire if they run out of armor. But increase the energy drain when it happens.
  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Posts: 1,850Members
    edited April 2012
    QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Apr 20 2012, 02:05 PM) »
    Aliens should only catch on fire if they run out of armor. But increase the energy drain when it happens.

    Forget that. Aliens only catch fire when they run out of armor. Flamethrower does double damage to armor. Flames disable healing until extinguished. Gorge spray, crag cloud, and hive "healing pulse" effect all extinguish flames (but do not heal when doing so) on hit.
    Post edited by Unknown User on

            Once the infestation reaches the Command Chair, the process begins. One Gorge enters the chair to provide the necessary height. Another climbs on its shoulders to access the controls.

            A Gorge Lab is quickly established, staffed by microscopic Gorges who work tirelessly to unlock the secrets of Frontiersman Technology, stopping only to change their lab coats when they become dirtied. Once the research progresses to a certain point, the Gorgecom gives the order. Nanites are called into service.

            The armature forms. A chosen Gorge, tested many times in the field of battle, enters the machine.

            Servos whir; miniguns spin up in diagnostics; an Exogorge is born.

  • IronHorseIronHorse NS2 Playtesting Lead Former NS2 Playtest Lead Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 5,737Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester admin
    "the real issue"
    i smell a politician..
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
  • XariusXarius Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24630Posts: 2,186Members
    Such a promosing title, and then this :(
    Steamname: Unkn0wn
  • TweadleTweadle Join Date: 2005-02-03 Member: 39686Posts: 854Members, NS2 Map Tester
    I'm kind of glad that the flamethrower is so uncommon because it's a pretty annoying weapon.
  • mechanicalDRmechanicalDR Join Date: 2012-03-20 Member: 149019Posts: 51Members
    Move it to the alien team. Make it an extenguisher. We don't want the dev teams hard work to go to waste.

    Make it so when aliens lose their armor they light on fire. Gorges and Lerks can equip the extinguisher and put the fire out. Promote support units working in conjunction with combat units.

    Also nerf the DJ Penguin unit, he's op like whoa.
  • internetexplorerinternetexplorer Join Date: 2011-10-13 Member: 127255Posts: 1,369Members
    I thought you were going to talk about how none of the balance changes being made will matter when everyone has a solid 60 fps, but you're just crying about the flamethrower. Weird thread!
  • RiseRise Join Date: 2012-04-17 Member: 150595Posts: 148Members
    edited April 2012
    I really think the flamethrower should terrorize skulks and lerks specifically, being effective against light armor. It would give the marines a decent weapon to kill those lerks with as currently they lack something to do that with, since the loss of the HMG.
    It also fits with the fact that the flamethrower gets rid of lerk gas.

    On top of that it should do more damage to buildings.

    I consider the clip to be unnecessary for the flamethrower. Giving it to he ability to fire continuously at structures while also being able to quickly switch to covering your team from skulks would make it a lot more effective, although it's large clip size does at least help the matter if you insist on requiring clips.

    I would also like to see the area of effect increased in angle so that it feels more like a flamethrower and can hit skulks better.

    The ability to leave flame trails on the walls and such by flaming it would also give it some extra tactical flexibility in terms of burning up a hallway after you pass through it, in order to give you a few seconds to help deter attacks from behind.


    Those things would make it a valueable addition to a team without being strait up better than any other weapon.
    1. The wide angle, large clip (or no clip), and high damage to light armor make it an effective way to keep skulks off your group as you advance.
    2. It's an effective defensive weapon against lerk raids.
    3. As a support weapon for a squad you can quickly burn away structures.
    4. It could potentially have some value for it's ability to suppress and deter alien advancement through the environment that is set on fire, although onos would not be deterred and fade can go right through it, so it wouldn't be a point of imbalance.

    Weaknesses that remain:
    1. Ineffective against Onos and Fade compared with grenade launcher for the former and shotgun for the later. A team made up entirely of flamethrowers would get completely destroyed by late game aliens employing a mix of troop types.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • ObraxisObraxis Subnautica Animator Join Date: 2004-07-24 Member: 30071Posts: 1,674Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Supporter, Subnautica Developer admin
    The flamer will have more of a use soon enough. Plans are in motion :-)

    If NS2 fails, follow my Nuke From Orbit Guide.

  • VeNeMVeNeM Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 928Posts: 1,240Members
    QUOTE (Raneman @ Apr 20 2012, 11:47 AM) »
    Flamethrowers. An iconic weapon in NS2, however, at 30 res, it is the most expensive in the game. It also does the least DPS, and your average T1 skulk can solo a rine while under direct flamer fire.

    We need to address this weapon. Personally, I see fire as a symbol of purging and cleansing, so why not have it do triple damage to infestation, double damage to structures? That would make it a useful close-range cleaning tool, more risky then GL but with a greater reward.


    it shouldnt be a player combat weapon anyway. are you going to complain that the welder doesnt instakill next?
    Lethal Assassin
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  • meb3meb3 Join Date: 2011-06-23 Member: 106078Posts: 82Members
    remove it from the game completely
    image
    exertus.meb
    #exertus / #team.fantasy @ Quakenet
  • SkymanderXSkymanderX Green Marine - The Few, The Proud, The Green. Join Date: 2011-07-29 Member: 113006Posts: 430Members
    remove it, i will not allow my favorite weapon in the game to be removed!!! but in all reality, it should be lowered in cost.
    image
  • paradoxumparadoxum Join Date: 2012-03-05 Member: 148193Posts: 370Members
    QUOTE (Quovatis @ Apr 20 2012, 11:51 AM) »
    and makes whips incapable of whacking grenades


    seriously? I think part of the problem is people don't even know what it can do. I had no idea it did this. it's a pretty big problem in the whole game that nothing is explained to people to be honest, noobs have no idea what anything does.
  • KoruyoKoruyo Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Posts: 1,674Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited April 2012
    Tho its still better to bring a lmg to destroy the whip instead of wasting 30pres (and the i dont know how many tres to research it) for a weapon thats so weak against everything. No utility feature will change this. After setting an alien on fire its better to use the axe or pistol than trying to do any dmg with the flamethrower. You need to burst down the lifeforms and not give them a chance to retreat and come back... using a flamethrower in your squads is a lot less dps.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    arc | Koruyo - www.teamarchaea.com - inactive
  • MaximumSquidMaximumSquid Join Date: 2010-07-20 Member: 72593Posts: 627Members
    I made my own Flamethrower thread already and have been commenting at least once a week about how terrible the weapon is on these forums in other threads
  • ellnicellnic Join Date: 2010-07-19 Member: 72559Posts: 902Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Apr 20 2012, 08:05 PM) »
    Aliens should only catch on fire if they run out of armor. But increase the energy drain when it happens.


    Flames should ignore armour all together in my opinion
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