the CONSTRUCTIVE thread
Rule 1) If your an angry man child troll gtfo.
Rule 2) Provide reasons, arguements, counter arguements.
Here are some of my arguement and counter arguements for why i think bilebomb should remain on the gorge.Design perspectiveArguements for
a) You cannot spore and bilebomb at the same time so not only are you asking to be shot out of the sky (already very easy to die trying to spore cover), but you cannot confuse sentry turrets at the same time. What giving bilebomb to lerk has done is give it two abilities that share the same function in regards to countering sentry turrets. This is not good design as it creates redundancy. Given the fragility of the lerk and a one weapon ability at any time mechanic, you can do one thing (ie. spore) but not the other (ie. bilebomb) vice versa.
b) Having bilebomb on gorges gave them a flavour and importance of their own in a unique twist that i think helped emphasize the importance of teamwork. The gorge required protection while bilebombing and acted as a signpost for alien mustering and concentration of force. The energy cost of bilebomb meant that you gave up your supporting effectiveness and survivability in a linear tradeoff. It gave the player a feeling of empowerment with an associated tradeoff such that it made gorging an interesting excercise of player controlled transitioning between a "omg stay behind the lines" class and a slightly more "offensive" class. Pidgeonholing lifeforms is uninteresting and has been done to death in the games industry already.
c) To be able to say to new players, friends etc. that the weakest offensive class, gorge, and not the most offensive class, fade, (lets exclude Onos) wins games is an intriguing concept and i think goes a long way in promoting not only the concept of team synergy but also the newness that NS2 gameplay will have for alot of people on launch.
d) Aliens now have absolutely no midgame counter to sentry turrets. This either prolongs a won game even further by pushing it into the late game or causes aliens to just leave out of frustration. Whoever wins the early game wins the midgame. Whoever wins the midgame wins the lategame. Whoever wins the late game wins the round.Counter arguements
I felt the Gorge had too many roles before: engineer, healer, and siege. And Lerk didn't have enough abilities.
The gorge may seem to have too many roles, but i would argue that this never presented a problem and infact ensured the relevance of the gorge throughout the early game to late game. It was a great way to encourage participation from new players (who usually play gorge) to learn about the dynamics of the game instead of creating massive structure farms everywhere oblivious to the rest of the game. Also, while the lerk may not have had enough abilities, it doesn't make sense to me to remove the lerks high burst dps flanking attack (shotgun) and add a dot bilebomb that is more kamikaze than harrassing.
1) The gorge will be receiving some new abilities to help support the skulks. Which logic implies that bilebomb has to go, to make way for these abilities.
Logic does not imply unless it is a design decision to keep weapon ability groupings capped to 3. It was never a problem in ns1 to have more than 3 weapon abilities and so i don't see why it is now. Also, not only am i of the personal opinion that combat buffs beyond healing are pretty gimmicky and feel like an artificially forced way of creating synergy, but skulks are not siege breakers. Neither are lerks that have to drop bilebomb from close range.
So now the Gorge will be just the "combat engineer", with a couple more structures he can build (in a future patch) and the Lerk will be further reinforced as the "damage over time" role.
No, now the gorge will simply be an engineer/medic. There is no 'combat' if you want to talk about the midgame to lategame timeframes where bilebomb is relevant. No idea what the structures will be, but giving the gorge structures to build is only going to confuse the alien command/gorge mechanic and functions. I am actually biased for removing alien comm and returning the ns1 gorge functionality, but the kham is here to stay and so giving gorge structures to build is like a watered down attempt at appeasing both crowds by giving everyone everything so to speak. All it does is weaken the importance of both roles (khamm and gorge). Yet to see what structures gorge will be given so i may be wrong here and i hope i am.
The removal of bilebomb was a good choice in the long run. The gorge is not an attacking class, he has the roll of support. Giving bilebomb to an attack/harass class such as lerk is the best solution to this problem.
I dont buy this. Its bad reasoning that pidgeonholes classes and starts going down the route of designing games with the intention of specifically dictating how players play (see WoW). Following this logic we should also remove spit, make healspray do no damage to marines, remove the ability to place unconnected cysts and hydras. In the end, there was a need for a relatively cheap midgame alien counter to structures whose effectiveness was severely limited by good marine pressure and highly effective against entrenched turtles, dot bilebomb doesn't fulfill this role unless buffed massively at which point it becomes OP.Balance perspective
I refer here specifically to b200 to explain why lerk bilebomb is useless and redundant within the frame of b200.
Its energy cost to damage is vastly greater than spike. Lerk bilebomb dps is very weak - (takes 2% hp off an extractor over a long period of time and cannot stack). It is so weak that it becomes immediately obvious spike is the better anti structure choice and doesn't require you risking your expensive lifeform by flying over structures in marine bases.
Its not fun having a stale midgame. It may be fun initially to sentry spam and turtle, but after a while (if your considering the long term longevity and fun of the game) most are not going to enjoy it whether alien or marine and those who do will be playing siege maps.My constructive suggestion
1) Give bilebomb back to gorge.
2) Lerk bilebomb i'm not sure about. There might be room for a bilebomb dot like ability for the lerk (in addition to gorge bilebomb), but as far as i can tell it doesn't fit with his role as a fighter but this is my unsubstantiated opinion.
Gorge bilebomb forever.