Who owns DotA?

ScytheScythe Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 46Posts: 4,371NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation, Reinforced - Silver mod
Blizzard vs Valve: Drunken favourite uncle brawl
Required reading: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/10...rs-up-vs-valve/

Hmm. This is a tricky one. It's kinda sorta a new precedent. The only similar case I can think about is Counterstrike, but in that case Valve hired up the dev team wholesale before releasing CS as a commercial product.

Who owns the labour of love of an amorphous community? Can anyone? Is Valve calling it "DotA 2" sufficiently distancing itself from the original?

I can honestly see both sides of the argument, but I think two of the most beloved game devs entering into a public pissing match is a shame. I think Blizzard are getting ansy about the name because they want to name their new game/SC2 mod "Blizzard DotA". I'd've thought them respectful enough of eachother to share the name. Let Valve make DotA 2, let Blizzard make Blizzard DotA. Let the world be at peace.

--Scythe--

P.S. Please leave aside the similarities between Valve's character concept art and the original War3 character designs. That's a separate kettle'o'fish.

P.P.S.S. Chris, please stay the hell out of this thread.
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Comments

  • ObraxisObraxis Subnautica Animator, Co-Lead NS2 CDT Join Date: 2004-07-24 Member: 30071Posts: 1,879Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Supporter, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts admin
    Blizzard cant claim ownership as they never filed for the trademark's registration and did not create DOTA.

    Valve can (but probably shouldn't) as DOTA was created by the community.

    Messy business. :-/

    If NS2 fails, follow my Nuke From Orbit Guide.

  • lolfighterlolfighter Snark, Dire Join Date: 2003-04-20 Member: 15693Posts: 9,006Members
    As far as Valve's claim to the name goes, I can see the argument against it. Valve hasn't really had anything to do with dota. But I think Blizzard's claim is equally unfounded. Dota isn't really something I associate with Blizzard. The only expression that comes to mind for me when I hear dota is "flaming nerdrage," not "Blizzard Entertainment."
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  • LV426-ColonistLV426-Colonist Space Jockey Join Date: 2011-08-05 Member: 114269Posts: 678Members, Constellation
    edited February 2012
    Yup, DoTA was a community mod originally.

    Valve has taken the trademark.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    LV426-Colonist
  • locallyunscenelocallyunscene Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Posts: 4,021Members, Constellation
    There are 4 outcomes in proposed order of likelyhood:

    Valve wins the trademark because the name was technically up for grabs.
    Blizzard wins the trademark because the circumstantial evidence surrounding the name is enough to convince a judge.
    Public domain wins the trademark because dota has become a sufficiently generic description.
    Some now unknown 3rd party has the rights to the dota trademark.(I call this the kingmaker scenario)

    3 is my personal favorite and most "common sense", but the first two are much more likely to happen.
    QUOTE (Flayra @ Mar 28 2007, 09:21 PM) »
    It's not an easy balance to achieve, but we do want to make a game that will be both the best competitive game since Starcraft and also one that many people can enjoy casually without being in a clan or an experienced or knowledgeable NS player. That's the goal at least!


    - NS in game name - tilde - My Steam Id Page - .
  • MkilbrideMkilbride Join Date: 2010-01-07 Member: 69952Posts: 428Members
    I don't like DoTA at all I think it sucks.

    However,

    Valve has Eul, the original creator of DoTA, who based it off of Aeon of Strife( A SC1 map)

    Valve also has Icefrog, whom made DoTA Allstars, the most popular version.

    They have the people who made DoTA what it is...so I believe they have all the right.

    Guisingo or whatever his name is, is a real jerk from what I heard. He tried to destroy the DoTA community to promote League of Legends. I heard a big uproar over this.

    Valve has the people, and the right.
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  • PetcoPetco Join Date: 2003-07-27 Member: 18478Posts: 1,724Members, Constellation
    edited February 2012
    QUOTE (Mkilbride @ Feb 13 2012, 09:53 PM) »
    I don't like DoTA at all I think it sucks.

    However,

    Valve has Eul, the original creator of DoTA, who based it off of Aeon of Strife( A SC1 map)

    Valve also has Icefrog, whom made DoTA Allstars, the most popular version.

    They have the people who made DoTA what it is...so I believe they have all the right.

    Guisingo or whatever his name is, is a real jerk from what I heard. He tried to destroy the DoTA community to promote League of Legends. I heard a big uproar over this.

    Valve has the people, and the right.


    Guinsoo made DotA Allstars. He continued up to version 6.0x (which is a lot; roughly 60% of the current heroes are based on Guinsoo's existing DotA Allstars with some of it based on Eul's). He handed it over to IceFrog. IceFrog probably has done much more work on DotA than Guinsoo at this point though.

    However he did try to promote LoL on the official DotA forums (he didn't say anything bad about DotA or Icefrog, he just promoted it).

    IceFrog seeing that, left and just made a new site (which is now playdota). Guinsoo + Pendragon was a bit bitter over that.

    I honestly don't know the whole story though but that was the gist of it (I was frequently visiting the old official DotA forums back then, so most of this stuff was what I vaguely remember).

    Anyway I agree. I think Blizzard is wrong here.

    If Valve tried to trade mark DotA in general (rather than "Dota 2"), Valve would be in the wrong but it seems they're only trademarking "Dota 2".

    (Wait is Valve fighting for DotA in general or just "Dota 2"?)
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Posts: 3,854Members
    Valve are basically selling it and there is no coherent opposition to their ability to do so, therefore valve owns it.
  • Fluid CoreFluid Core Join Date: 2007-12-26 Member: 63260Posts: 399Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I think that if valves claim mean that none else can use a name including the letter combination "dota" and not be sued for it (whether legally i.e. game or privately), then they are wrong. If they simply seek to grab "DOTA 2" then I don't see the problem, really. Granted, I don't know all the twists of IP laws, I think they are messy in general and bad in many situations.

    So my verdict is that anyone should be able to use "dota" with any combination of capitals in conjunction with another words and be in the clear. Just the term "dota" in itself should not be trademarkable. Much like there are many kinds of soda called "cola" but only one called "coca cola"

    Also, Blizzard doesn't need to have filed for the trademark DotA for it to be associated and "owned" by them. You can file for a name or symbol, or you can use it and have it associated with you. I know that much atleast :)
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  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Posts: 3,854Members
    There is a difference between a registered trade mark and just a trade mark, the little R in a circle is one, TM is the other. I think technically anyone can use the TM version if they feel like it, or at least is is much less regulated than registered ones.
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Posts: 8,203Forum Moderators, Constellation mod
  • ScytheScythe Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 46Posts: 4,371NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation, Reinforced - Silver mod
    edited May 2012
    Yay! Peace and trust wins the day.

    --Scythe--
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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    "Show me an operation that is running smoothly and I'll show you someone who's covering up mistakes. Real boats rock." - Frank Herbert
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  • locallyunscenelocallyunscene Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Posts: 4,021Members, Constellation
    Basically Valve and Blizzard own it jointly now. Not exactly the peace and love solution, but the best outcome for Valve and Blizzard.
    QUOTE (Flayra @ Mar 28 2007, 09:21 PM) »
    It's not an easy balance to achieve, but we do want to make a game that will be both the best competitive game since Starcraft and also one that many people can enjoy casually without being in a clan or an experienced or knowledgeable NS player. That's the goal at least!


    - NS in game name - tilde - My Steam Id Page - .
  • LV426-ColonistLV426-Colonist Space Jockey Join Date: 2011-08-05 Member: 114269Posts: 678Members, Constellation
    edited May 2012
    I own Dota.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    LV426-Colonist
  • 1dominator11dominator1 Join Date: 2010-11-19 Member: 75011Posts: 1,136Members
    edited January 21
    Icefrog and his affiliates own dota. Or no one does, since it has changed hands so many times.
    Post edited by 1dominator1 on
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