Lighting and contrast, fog and atmospherics.

Electr0Electr0 Join Date: 2011-10-31 Member: 130337Posts: 349Members
After playing the new mineshaft map i think this has become more of an issue, now might be a good time to take a look at this and see if it can be improved, basically at the moment maps are overly dark, this wouldn't be so bad if it's just when the lights go out only with certain areas but the general lighting level is set too low and should be increased.

The other issue which i think is a lot worse is that blacks aren't actually black, the contrast in this game is really poor, this is partly down to the fog setting and the atmospherics, with fog i see a few issues, the first is that it's set too strong, it's too thick, in other games you'll notice fog doesn't fill a small room, in ns2 you see fog at very short distances, the other is the default setting in the map editor is too light a shade of grey, add atmospherics to the mix and it makes for very poor blacks.

Comments

  • Squeal_Like_A_PigSqueal_Like_A_Pig Janitor Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 66Posts: 2,495Members, Super Administrators, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer admin
    QUOTE (Electr0 @ Feb 3 2012, 02:26 PM) »
    The other issue which i think is a lot worse is that blacks aren't actually black, the contrast in this game is really poor, this is partly down to the fog setting and the atmospherics, with fog i see a few issues, the first is that it's set too strong, it's too thick, in other games you'll notice fog doesn't fill a small room, in ns2 you see fog at very short distances, the other is the default setting in the map editor is too light a shade of grey, add atmospherics to the mix and it makes for very poor blacks.

    We are planning on implementing controls for mappers to adjust the default fog settings (density/color) on a per area basis, rather then a per map basis. This should help immensely.

    We also have color grading planned, which will allow us to pump up the contrast, among other things.

    --Cory
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 11,379Forum Admins, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue mod
    edited February 2012
    Yeah the official maps could use some "fog_controls" tweaking, the problem is that this entity is still used across the entire map and it isn't really a AFAIK
    Post edited by Unknown User on

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  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Posts: 1,731Members
    edited February 2012
    I though the same when I saw mineshaft at first, "holy ****** **** this is foggy". Have you actually tried to remove the fog completely ? I'm sure it would look much better. I tried myself to edit the map but the map editor freezes so can't do it. Turtle has no or very little fog and it really looks good: more colors, more contrast.

    Edit: managed to do it.

    image

    image
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Electr0Electr0 Join Date: 2011-10-31 Member: 130337Posts: 349Members
    edited February 2012
    Those screenshots say it all, changing the fog setting makes such a difference and yet it's only a quick trick, with proper improvement the game will look ten times better.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Posts: 915Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited February 2012
    QUOTE (Yuuki @ Feb 3 2012, 02:04 PM) »
    Turtle has no or very little fog and it really looks good: more colors, more contrast.


    Haha thx. It has no fog and very little atmospherics, and honestly I don't like it too much. I rather it turned off when I play, mostly because of the flashlight. By trying to see better, you affect the vision of all your teammates and I find it harder to spot enemies as a group of marines when one turns on his flashlight with atmospherics on.

    But I wouldn't judge this feature too quickly. As Cory points out color grading will eventually be implemented and this will up the contrasts and colors. Even if I don't like the concept of a system to remove and then another to restore. There is something I learned in designing buildings, you don't create steps going down, only then to have other steps going up. What you might think is cool and enhances the effect, is often a hindrance to the user.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    ns2_turtle modid=486cef9 Forum thread / duplexgaming page
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Posts: 1,731Members
    The problem with fog is it's not affected by light so you end up having dark area looking lighter than bright ones.

    It would be really cool to have a fog that is affected by light.. wait! we already have it, and it's called atmospheric lighting. In fact if you turn off fog (r_fog 0) some areas in mineshaft still look very foggy, because there is a lot of atmospherics (a bit too much in some areas).

    Isn't fog a cheap trick to hide short draw distance in the first place ?

    I kind of like atmospherics but I also turn it off because of the flashlight.
  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Posts: 915Members, Squad Five Blue
    I love these features too, I just feel they aren't serving their purpose well yet. Light is relative in a sense and so is contrast. Contrast exist because you have references. I find the way fog and atmospherics work currently, they reduce the background so the light of it is shown relatively to that which kills contrast, rather than adding a layer of light which contrasts to the background.
    ns2_turtle modid=486cef9 Forum thread / duplexgaming page
  • Electr0Electr0 Join Date: 2011-10-31 Member: 130337Posts: 349Members
    I just had another look around with fog and atmospherics off, how come it still looks odd, it's a bit like gamma is too high, the lighting and shadows are poor somehow, colours are also lacking, i think the fog has covered it up all this time but something is wrong.
  • Electr0Electr0 Join Date: 2011-10-31 Member: 130337Posts: 349Members
    Anyone know?

    Also when can we expect to see some improvements?
  • zastelszastels Join Date: 2003-11-29 Member: 23731Posts: 388Members
    I posted about this issue and someone thought I was trolling :S

    I always play with r_fog false and r_atmospherics false because the fog not only hampers your ability to see bad guys, it hurts the pretty visuals as well.

    Can't wait for those new Spark features, I'm very close to fogging up my own map : )
  • playerplayer Join Date: 2010-09-12 Member: 73982Posts: 1,677Members
    Ya I too play (when I ever do) with fog\atmos\bloom turned off, frankly it just looks better without those at the moment.
  • zastelszastels Join Date: 2003-11-29 Member: 23731Posts: 388Members
    QUOTE (player @ Feb 9 2012, 10:37 AM) »
    Ya I too play (when I ever do) with fog\atmos\bloom turned off, frankly it just looks better without those at the moment.


    Don't hate on bloom!
  • Electr0Electr0 Join Date: 2011-10-31 Member: 130337Posts: 349Members
    Is there a way to permanently turn off fog and atmospherics as it keeps resetting every so often?
  • Electr0Electr0 Join Date: 2011-10-31 Member: 130337Posts: 349Members
    Since the recent update that added alien detection icons on the hud, i've realised just how hard it is/was to see them due to the poorly lit maps, the icons make it obvious where they are but the models and their movement on screen don't often appear clearly, good thing they added the radar then i guess but i would prefer batter lighting and contrast to be honest.
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Posts: 1,731Members
    QUOTE
    Is there a way to permanently turn off fog and atmospherics as it keeps resetting every so often?


    I think this works : in Player_Client.lua change Client.SetEnableFog(true) to Client.SetEnableFog(false)
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