[WIP] ns2_nest

WorthyRivalWorthyRival Black Armor Division Join Date: 2006-11-07 Member: 58470Posts: 557Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
edited January 2012 in Mapping
Download Map here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32942522/ns2.rar

This is my first map so please excuse the sloppy work. It’s not as good as the others I’ve seen in this forum.

This map is not finished but the map really needs some testing before I go any further. So treat it like a fun-map

I've shown this to a few NS2 steam friends they said it should be here for the best and worst comments/advice to improve it.

When I started this map NS2 was a very different beast. Initially designed with power packs and fixed spawns in mind. It's was meant to be a long assault up a mountain to clear 3 alien nests. Marines in exo-suits and jet packs, While aliens rained down from above or crawling up from below.

I've learnt a lot about mapping creating this map, Some areas really need some re-doing but it takes time. As there are so few maps I thought I'd add put this here and see weather it’s worth scrapping it starting it from scratch.

KNOWN ISSUES

Sky Box is Evil_bOb1’s ns2_turtle
http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=115214
It’s a place holder. Till I learn how to create a skybox.

Map is HUGE! (Takes a little while to load. Be patient. )

Ready Room is small. It was made for testing will re-do it eventually.

Commanders Camera distance. loss of sight. (I’m working on this! ) Move the camera around in the mean time. Any advice on bettering the commander camera I'm listening.

Cyst placement in the middle of the map (Dead Zone) is a real problem (I’m working on it)

Location: Charlie – Aliens can’t build the res point.

Players draw distance. (This I’m not sure how to fix but I’m looking into it... Engine limitation?)

In the area named Dead Zone a Commander can place items but not see them. (I've been trying to fix this but I think it’s a limitation of the commander camera)

Lighting is incomplete

Hive: Hatchery - Camera is too low. It didn’t use to be! I’ve added a camera that’s changed this.

image image image image

image image image image

image image
Post edited by Unknown User on
Worthy's Co_Maps.
ns2_co_assault Fourms, Workshop,
ns2_co_nest Fourms, Workshop,
ns2_co_chuteout Fourms, Workshop,
ns2_co_portals Marine Start and Room 5 Fourms, Workshop,

Worthy's NS2_Maps.
ns2_nanogrid Fourms, Workshop,

Worthy's XS_Maps.
xs_maze Workshop,

Worthy's Marine Vs Marine Maps.
mvm_assault Workshop,
image
«1

Comments

  • subshadowsubshadow Join Date: 2003-04-21 Member: 15710Posts: 317Members
    Maybe some screenshots?
  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Posts: 1,868Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited January 2012
    Your areas are far too huge, would not bring any good gameplay.
    Map seems to be very marine favoured due to the large lines of sight.
    Also, why make the whole map with rock props? :P Make it interesting instead :)

    The player draw distance is usually not a problem when you make a map that's fairly balanced for melee vs ranged games.
    But yes, atm it is an engine limitation :)
    Post edited by Unknown User on

    NS2 6v6 Gathers
    QUOTE (Floodinator @ Feb 28 2012, 08:41 PM) »
    it's always a good idea to kill swalk or he will kill you.
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Posts: 3,305Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    edited January 2012
    Hi WorthyRival,

    I've spent some time playing around on your map, and thought I'd leave a few comments.

    You said it is a WIP and should be considered a fun map. Unfortunately I feel it can only ever be a fun map. There is nothing wrong with that btw, it is a fun map :) I love the map, really cool idea, but it is not in anyway an NS2 map, it's more suited to UT2K4 :) I'll try and explain why below.

    Walls are absolutely necessary for view distances and movement restriction.

    As a fade I can blink from one hive to the other, lerks can fly all over, marines have to walk around the paths until they get JP's.

    The height difference is too much, there needs to be a consistency over the height of the floor, of course it needs to vary, but probably never more than about 1024 across the whole map, personally main routes don't vary more than 256-512 across my maps.

    Without walls, marines can shoot across miles, fades can blink miles, lerks can glide miles, really not conducive to an NS2 map. Visiblity needs to be obscured or performance on the game when structures and environments get placed will cause the FPS to go negative!

    I am caught in such a quandry, I love the ideas behind this map, but it will never work with NS2. This map needs it's own mod :) I know games like Siege etc were pretty frowned on among the serious community, but the design of this map lends itself to a mod, maybe not siege, but I'd love to play some sort of game on this map :) I might even brainstorm a few ideas. It would need a mod where marines had JP's though, so would probably need to wait until they were in the game.

    It's also way too big for a multiplayer game, it's a single player level. Forcing someone along a path from the designed MS to the top alien hive could make a really cool singleplayer experience, but it's way too much for multiplayer games to handle.

    I could offer some tips to cover in areas and make a great map for a mod of some sort but I'm afraid if you want a vanilla NS2 map, you need to open a new file and begin again.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Posts: 1,731Members
    Wow, that's a huge map. Biggest map in ns2 yet. It looks good also, although a bit of textures diversity wouldn't hurt.

    I also fail to see how it could be played, it's just so big. I would like to try though, just for fun.

    You should remove a bit of fog also :

    image


  • Fluid CoreFluid Core Join Date: 2007-12-26 Member: 63260Posts: 399Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited January 2012
    That map with the lerk spike mod. Yummy :)

    I absolutely love the idea though. If you would remake it and instead have a path that snakes up through a mountain, with part of the paths on the outside, path tunnels and caves/terrace. This would naturally limit the viewing distances and make it so that the client doesn't have to draw huge parts of the map at the same time. This would still allow aliens to drop down on outside paths or through small paths in the mountain, as well as crawling up from below, hopefully preserving the feel of the map (and possibly its size?) while making it more playable.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    .....//\\......This is a pylon
    ....///\\\....Copy this to your
    ....\\\///....Signature if you
    .....\\//......Must Construct
    '''''''''''''''''''''Additional Pylons
  • WorthyRivalWorthyRival Black Armor Division Join Date: 2006-11-07 Member: 58470Posts: 557Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Thanks for the comments guys, all are really helpful.

    QUOTE (swalk @ Jan 22 2012, 03:07 PM) »
    Your areas are far too huge, would not bring any good gameplay.
    Map seems to be very marine favoured due to the large lines of sight.
    Also, why make the whole map with rock props? :P Make it interesting instead :)

    The player draw distance is usually not a problem when you make a map that's fairly balanced for melee vs ranged games.
    But yes, atm it is an engine limitation :)


    I was trying to think outside the contained box, trying for something different other than the same old boring tight facility corridors we all know so well.

    Personally I think the problem is the game, Containing itself to only work well in small boxed corridors and rooms that is the problem.

    When I started this map I thought the jet pack would be more like the NS1 jetpacks, a bit quicker and more maneuverable, I've only just recently been able to test with it. I have no idea how the current jetpack is going to work in tight corridors.

    Good game play ? has anyone played it with 14 players or more yet ? It's a huge map so it needs lots players. It has 32 player slots. Perspective from a larger game is what i'm really interested in.

    Marine favored ? I thought it favored aliens more myself. Skulks hiding above or below, able to dive and take no fall damage, Leap. Lerks swooping marines with little cover, The marines biggest asset is their range and I think they really need it.

    I wish line of sight was as good as you're thinking it is, Players are only drawn within a certain distance so marines can't snipe from miles away. But I wish they could. I wanted you to be able to see skulks crawling all over the mountain while you tried to pick them off. Or lerks circling like vultures waiting to dive bomb marines.

    Rock props. Its a mountain. not a facility.

    QUOTE (Soul_Rider @ Jan 22 2012, 03:11 PM) »
    As a fade I can blink from one hive to the other, lerks can fly all over, marines have to walk around the paths until they get JP's.

    The height difference is too much, there needs to be a consistency over the height of the floor, of course it needs to vary, but probably never more than about 1024 across the whole map, personally main routes don't vary more than 256-512 across my maps.

    Without walls, marines can shoot across miles, fades can blink miles, lerks can glide miles, really not conducive to an NS2 map. Visiblity needs to be obscured or performance on the game when structures and environments get placed will cause the FPS to go negative!

    It's also way too big for a multiplayer game, it's a single player level. Forcing someone along a path from the designed MS to the top alien hive could make a really cool singleplayer experience, but it's way too much for multiplayer games to handle.


    Fades can blink from one place to another but will then have no energy for combat. I don't really see this as a problem with the testing i've done. When they try to escape the open nature of the map lets you shoot them, As they don't instantly disapear around corners. Fades need to pick their battles more wisely as escape is a long way away.

    Marines have to walk around paths till jetpack. Well they have phase tech too, Eventually an EXO Suit. This map is the aliens domain, it's an environment hostile to marines as they are the invaders.

    Yuuki I love your planet skybox. and agree about the fog I've not made much time for atmospherics.

    Great Idea Fluid Core if I think I can't save this map I might redo it like that.
    Worthy's Co_Maps.
    ns2_co_assault Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_nest Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_chuteout Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_portals Marine Start and Room 5 Fourms, Workshop,

    Worthy's NS2_Maps.
    ns2_nanogrid Fourms, Workshop,

    Worthy's XS_Maps.
    xs_maze Workshop,

    Worthy's Marine Vs Marine Maps.
    mvm_assault Workshop,
    image
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 11,448Forum Admins, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue mod
    edited January 2012
    You know, thinking outside the box is one thing and I like it. However throwing each and every rule out of the window and even going as far as saying this map is alien biased kinda shows me you're not up to speed with how aliens are balanced in this game :/

    There is no way in hell the aliens have enough energy (blink/leap/cloak) to even get close to marines and get out safely. Aliens are going to be left in a crater after the marines are done taking possession of all the areas due to their far superior fire-power on range. More players only adds to this problem as it will favour marines more then aliens, when there is no cover or any probably way to close the distance. The game has gameplay rules and saying it's the game's fault is simply wrong. Melee vs ranged isn't ranged vs ranged, there are guidelines when dealing with asymmetrical gameplay for a reason

    It seriously requires more cover. there are some areas that kinda are a bit more balanced, but they are far and few in between. Not to mention even these areas aren't all that good for aliens. Imagine a Skulk,Gorge or even the slow and hulking Onos trying to close distances or hide/retreat... The Lerk could work, but can be taken out by the superior ranged fire-power the marines have and the Fade has a serious lack of energy to even tangle with marines in 90% of the areas on the map

    I'm not even going into the serious lack of energy the hives will have to get to the resnodes, not to mention the marines can simply snipe each and every cyst/pustule. Or aliens trying to take out powernodes. Well maybe that way you've got them set up (vertically) could work I guess (I like that idea btw :D)


    And please don't blow off our feedback, like were don't know what we're talking about and seriously work on more cover. I'd like to see this map work as it is something completely different... I've written an "Out door mapping guideline" a few years back, it might give you some ideas, I think I've got it linked on my about page, if not --> advanced search :P

    http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....ode=adv&f=0
    Post edited by Unknown User on

    Forum Admin "guardian of the magic cookiejar" Admin/Moderator I mostly use a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

    Existence Unknown
    NS2-720p Playlist or on the UWE Forums, last update 11-aug-2012
    NS2: 95x1HP Skulk escapes, latest NS2 Comic #49 GAS: Newton's third law was wrong?

  • zombiehellmonkeyzombiehellmonkey Join Date: 2007-08-31 Member: 62093Posts: 304Members, Squad Five Blue
    QUOTE (Fluid Core @ Jan 22 2012, 08:30 PM) »
    That map with the lerk spike mod. Yummy :)

    I absolutely love the idea though. If you would remake it and instead have a path that snakes up through a mountain, with part of the paths on the outside, path tunnels and caves/terrace. This would naturally limit the viewing distances and make it so that the client doesn't have to draw huge parts of the map at the same time. This would still allow aliens to drop down on outside paths or through small paths in the mountain, as well as crawling up from below, hopefully preserving the feel of the map (and possibly its size?) while making it more playable.



    I really like the concept of this map too and I like Fluid's idea also.

    But maybe keep the hives indoors, and provide some underground tunnels too. I'm sure it could work.

    NS2_Kleos
    Subscribe now on NS2 Steam Workshop!
    image
    Kleos (Greek: κλέος) is the Greek word often translated to "renown", or "glory".
  • WorthyRivalWorthyRival Black Armor Division Join Date: 2006-11-07 Member: 58470Posts: 557Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited January 2012
    I'm sorry to anyone if it sounded like I was blowing off your feed back. I definatly wasn't and that wasn't the tone or message I was trying to convey when I wrote my replys.

    I've read all of the comments and agree whole heartedly with most points made, and are editing the map accordingly. But I think it might help if I tell you my original vision for the map.

    I agree the map should have more cover Kouji_San.

    My Original Vision.
    I originally designed the map to favor lerks and bold skulks picking off lone marines in the sparce covered areas while other aliens would wait in ambush areas, My thoughts were initially a large group of marines should be able to make it to each covered area without too many loses, setup a quick power pack and a phase gate to get reinforcements and do this mobile cover to cover system all the way up the mountain. Then the design of the game changed. Power packs were removed and this concept went up in smoke.
    My thoughts were marines would naturally group together for safety in the open areas and run for cover and lock down covered areas as small out posts.
    Marines spawn was ment to be a fixed location and have lockable doors.
    So the map is now far off what I initally invisioned

    I wanted some feedback on how the map plays with more players for this reason, before spending hours of more time on it I've already spent over 100+ Hours on it. Feedback about where the extra cover is needed being one of the comments I was paticularly interested in, This res node is too far from the hive... etc etc
    These are things that are difficult to test on my own.

    I didnt think I had thrown the rules out the window, challenged them maybe ;).
    Aliens in my opinion were designed as an ambushing race, So fades having enough energy to make huge assaults and then escape wasn't something that came to mind in the design of this map. But a fade following an onos up a pathway upgraded with regen and carapace was. With a few rocks big enough for an onos to hide behind to get health back while the fade did his thing.

    Anyway I'm at work so I better get back to it.

    Thanks again guys.
    Looking forward to more feedback.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    Worthy's Co_Maps.
    ns2_co_assault Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_nest Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_chuteout Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_portals Marine Start and Room 5 Fourms, Workshop,

    Worthy's NS2_Maps.
    ns2_nanogrid Fourms, Workshop,

    Worthy's XS_Maps.
    xs_maze Workshop,

    Worthy's Marine Vs Marine Maps.
    mvm_assault Workshop,
    image
  • zombiehellmonkeyzombiehellmonkey Join Date: 2007-08-31 Member: 62093Posts: 304Members, Squad Five Blue
    For what it's worth, I still think this could become one of the great NS2 maps.
    NS2_Kleos
    Subscribe now on NS2 Steam Workshop!
    image
    Kleos (Greek: κλέος) is the Greek word often translated to "renown", or "glory".
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Posts: 3,305Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    edited January 2012
    QUOTE (WorthyRival @ Jan 23 2012, 05:49 AM) »
    My Original Vision.
    I originally designed the map to favor lerks and bold skulks picking off lone marines in the sparce covered areas while other aliens would wait in ambush areas, My thoughts were initially a large group of marines should be able to make it to each covered area without too many loses, setup a quick power pack and a phase gate to get reinforcements and do this mobile cover to cover system all the way up the mountain. Then the design of the game changed. Power packs were removed and this concept went up in smoke.
    My thoughts were marines would naturally group together for safety in the open areas and run for cover and lock down covered areas as small out posts.
    Marines spawn was ment to be a fixed location and have lockable doors.
    So the map is now far off what I initally invisioned

    I wanted some feedback on how the map plays with more players for this reason, before spending hours of more time on it I've already spent over 100+ Hours on it. Feedback about where the extra cover is needed being one of the comments I was paticularly interested in, This res node is too far from the hive... etc etc
    These are things that are difficult to test on my own.

    I didnt think I had thrown the rules out the window, challenged them maybe ;).
    Aliens in my opinion were designed as an ambushing race, So fades having enough energy to make huge assaults and then escape wasn't something that came to mind in the design of this map. But a fade following an onos up a pathway upgraded with regen and carapace was. With a few rocks big enough for an onos to hide behind to get health back while the fade did his thing.

    Anyway I'm at work so I better get back to it.

    Thanks again guys.
    Looking forward to more feedback.


    As I said, I love this map, but every route needs to be covered and not shootable from another, like caves and tunnels. This is the point I was trying to make.

    The big flaw in your plan here is you are making a map based around certain gameplay conditions that exist only in your head. You want the marines to play like X, skulks to play like Y, etc, so you are designing a map based on very limited ideas of what will happen on the map. Fact is almost no-one will play the game the way you want them to. NS2 has a lot of strict rules about map design to make the game work. The best maps enable a variety of gameplay options, and maps should always be designed to allow as many as possible, not force players to play the game the way you want. That is a mod. If you want people to play a game a certain way, you have to write the game so they play that way.

    As I said, you are designing a singleplayer/co-op story-driven map, not a multi-player map. Multiplayer is about options and choice, single player is being guided along a story.

    When I first started mapping, I used to make the same mistake all the time, I was designing things because they enabled all these cool ideas of mine about players doing X, and Y, but in early testing, no-one wanted to do the things that I'd enabled them to do with the map, and they just tried to play normal games on them, and they didn't work.

    This was of course my fault, not the players. My advice, which it took me several years to begin following myself -

    Make your 1st map 100% within the guidelines. If you are making a map for a mod or whatever, always make the maps at first 100% within the guidelines. Then when play-testing them out, you begin to get a feel for what can be changed and what can't. Wide open spaces in NS2 does just not work, it didn't work in NS1 either, I know, I tried many times to make it work, even with co_ maps.

    I am offering you my advice so you don't end up working this map like crazy, only to end up throwing it away after 500+ hours work (Yes, I've done that on more than one occasion).

    ---EDIT---

    I am the worlds worst fade, and yet I can blink into hive 2 from hive 3 hit the extractor and escape. Imagine what a good fade could do..

    http://youtu.be/0cF0zVSIPLY

    I tried to comment on run times from MS to Hive 3, to make the point about length, but i got completely lost going from hive 2- hive 3 :P Anyway, the point is the gameplay of NS2 requires spawns to all be within a certain distance of each other. If you have designed this with powerpacks going up the path and so on, then make the mod that will force the gameplay play you want.

    I really like the map. Depending on how my mod continues, I may even look at trying to fit this in somehow. I have the win condition for the hunter, eliminate all marines, but I don't have a win condition for the marines, should I make it kill the hunter, should I make it survive for a time period, or should I make it an escape where they have to start at a point and make their way along a map, like up a mountain ...

    Your map would certainly fit in if I decided to go with the last route as a win condition for the marine team.

    If you want this map to be vanilla NS2 I will suggest the following changes, although it may be easier to start the map again , with the same design, but these changes.

    The height elevation is just too much. I love the idea, but to get this map to fit into NS2 game play you are going to have to reduce it, and promote more connectivity between the individual hive locations. Still maintain elevation differences, but reduce them drastically. If the floor elevated 1024 units across the map, which I would say would be a reasonable maximum, it would still be equivalent to 85 feet, and even that will push the commander camera to it's limits. Currently what you are asking the commander view to do is just too much, hence why it does not work properly.

    This currently is designed as a hive-hive route, and to fit in with NS2 gameplay, that has to change, so there needs to be more connectivity between the hives. This again reinforces the needs to reduce the overall elevation of this map.

    If you make the centre of the map a mountain, the routes all caves and tunnels through it, essentially take everything that seems currently to be outside the mountain, and reimagine it inside the mountain, then you will have a great map, and an opportunity to reduce all the view distances and number of external models, saving on file size and loading times.

    It could work, but I honestly believe it would be better starting the map again, rather than trying to back edit all this stuff. Do you currently have the design template you are working from? If you don't have one, I suggest you make one because it's importance cannot be over stated.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Posts: 3,305Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    edited January 2012
    QUOTE (WorthyRival @ Jan 23 2012, 02:27 AM) »
    Fades can blink from one place to another but will then have no energy for combat. I don't really see this as a problem with the testing i've done. When they try to escape the open nature of the map lets you shoot them, As they don't instantly disapear around corners. Fades need to pick their battles more wisely as escape is a long way away.....

    This map is the aliens domain, it's an environment hostile to marines as they are the invaders.....


    Isn't that a direct contradiction, Fades need to play it safe on their own domain? This is definitely marine biased as it stands, inside a mountain it could be made more alien biased, but there is no cover at all anywhere for the smaller lifeforms.

    Please don't take any of this the wrong way, I just think you are a little confused about the difference between your ability to change gameplay with a map, and your need for a mod. I used to have the same problem.

    A better understanding of the engine limitations would also enable you to see which ideas ultimately can't work.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • WorthyRivalWorthyRival Black Armor Division Join Date: 2006-11-07 Member: 58470Posts: 557Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    OK A new version was just uploaded I reduced the whole map in size by about 20-25% This has created a few small issues as a few items didn't re-size properly nothing a hour or 2 to find them and fix but I thought you guys might like a look at it resized.

    Thanks Soul Rider I appreciate the concern and I will try with my next map, This is the first map I've ever made and I learnt so much the hard way, but the 100% within the guideline boat sailed long ago for this map. I'm going to try and bring it closer to the guidelines add more walls and covered areas but I only really have time to map on weekends.

    Hehehehe
    Next map I promise.
    Worthy's Co_Maps.
    ns2_co_assault Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_nest Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_chuteout Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_portals Marine Start and Room 5 Fourms, Workshop,

    Worthy's NS2_Maps.
    ns2_nanogrid Fourms, Workshop,

    Worthy's XS_Maps.
    xs_maze Workshop,

    Worthy's Marine Vs Marine Maps.
    mvm_assault Workshop,
    image
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Posts: 3,305Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    Here's a quick wireframe video from the top hive (r_wireframe in console to do this). I've just done this on the new map you've uploaded. Those wireframes are telling you what my graphics card is drawing while I sit in that top hive. As you can clearly see, it is drawing all the map.

    http://youtu.be/iCYcR7wmyt4

    Game engines aren't intelligent enough to limit what they draw to what you can actually see. They draw what you can potentially see. Without corridors, rooms etc you can potentially see anything (as far as a game engine is concerned).

    You have a lot of models clipping each other all over the place. This adds a further burden on the graphics cards, you see it drawing one model and the one it interects with and comes up like a constant movement on the screen..

    And it is drawing all of that information all the time, even when you are sitting in the top hive.

    This is what is going to make this unplayable, it doesn't matter about the size, or the balance, however good they may be, once you start adding anything to this map, everything will be drawn all the time, servers and clients will just grind to a halt. This is what I mean about engine limitations.

    Spark engine is not designed as an outdoor environment engine. Once water and a few other things have been added, then mods using much smaller player sizes, or different gameplay altogether, may be able to make big outdoor environments, but it is not going to work vanilla NS because the engine is designed to fit the gameplay, and the maps must be designed to fit it too.

    As kouji said earlier, it's one thing to push the guidelines, another thing to abandon them :) They are in place so you don't spend hundreds of hours working on a map that just isn't going to work :)

    As I said earlier, if you turn this map inside of the mountain, it can work, but while these issues with rendering the whole map all the time remain, it won't, and you can only solve the rendering issues by enclosing the map.

    The hardest thing to learn in mapping, like love, is when to let go. Make a decision, turn this into a mod map, or, if you want to make a NS map, start again using this map as a basis, but keeping it within guidelines. It will be much less work, and ultimately much less frustration for you.

  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Posts: 1,731Members
    I had surprisingly high fps, flying around as a lerk, don't remember the number but it wasn't so horrible.
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Posts: 3,305Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    I just opened this in the editor, there is a really nice corner in the map that could be developed further..

    image

    If you took this concept and carried it around the outer pathway, essentially making the pathway inside the mountain, it could work.

    @ Yukki, Ignore the FPS, fraps makes it a lot worse, my FPS was about 33 in that room, with my set-up is surprisingly good.

    There will be pustule placement problems with that degree of height change. They work off a flat 2D zone, which when trying to pustule out of Atrium on summit means you have to go down the stairs despite areas on the floor being within the range. the height variances in this will break that. You need to reduce the height difference to make this work. Commander camera will not work with this amount of variance over the map.
  • WorthyRivalWorthyRival Black Armor Division Join Date: 2006-11-07 Member: 58470Posts: 557Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    The Tech points are in the mountains. If you get in the command chair or hive you will see I can't have areas overlapping to much, I'm streching the boundries with overlapping areas as it is.

    Cysts placement is fine everywhere except the charlie & dead zone locations. Jump in a CC or hive and test it for your self. It's more the loss of line of sight of things still in view when panning to different cameras in overlapping areas as commander. You have to find the right camera for where your looking. I'm still tring to get this right is some spots ut the over lapping nature of the terrain is what hinders this

    As for the wire frame don't all the maps do this ? Seems fine for me but I am running a good PC with a 580GTX. I still have no data on a game played with more than 2 people as to how it performs. Personally I get average of 70-90 fps in most locations with the lowest being 40 fps when Im looking at the center of the map as a lerk flying around it.
    Worthy's Co_Maps.
    ns2_co_assault Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_nest Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_chuteout Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_portals Marine Start and Room 5 Fourms, Workshop,

    Worthy's NS2_Maps.
    ns2_nanogrid Fourms, Workshop,

    Worthy's XS_Maps.
    xs_maze Workshop,

    Worthy's Marine Vs Marine Maps.
    mvm_assault Workshop,
    image
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Posts: 3,305Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    Is there a server hosting this online so we can test? I've only been running around it on a listen server.

    Do the wireframe on summit and you'll clearly see the difference :) Summit is a very well done map occlusion wise, approaching crossroads is pretty busy, but otherwise you see almost only the room you are in.

    If this is up, give us the IP and we can have a play around. :)
  • WorthyRivalWorthyRival Black Armor Division Join Date: 2006-11-07 Member: 58470Posts: 557Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited January 2012
    Well reluctantly I've started a remake of the map.

    image image image

    There are more walls planned ! I only got this far in an hour.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    Worthy's Co_Maps.
    ns2_co_assault Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_nest Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_chuteout Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_portals Marine Start and Room 5 Fourms, Workshop,

    Worthy's NS2_Maps.
    ns2_nanogrid Fourms, Workshop,

    Worthy's XS_Maps.
    xs_maze Workshop,

    Worthy's Marine Vs Marine Maps.
    mvm_assault Workshop,
    image
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Posts: 3,305Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    I am sure the map and your mapping skills, as well as this whole community, will benefit because of it :)
  • JanosJanos Join Date: 2002-08-02 Member: 1050Posts: 390Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
    What exactly are you aiming for when building this map? Large open areas?
  • WorthyRivalWorthyRival Black Armor Division Join Date: 2006-11-07 Member: 58470Posts: 557Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    QUOTE (Janos @ Jan 24 2012, 04:43 PM) »
    What exactly are you aiming for when building this map? Large open areas?


    Well yes I was hoping for one large open area for lerks and jetpacks to have dogfights in, For lerks to be able to harass marines into ambush areas. you can see if you d/l the map from the OP. Alas I'm told the engine doesn't handle large outdoor areas well, by by drawing to much data from what people are posting here.

    So I plan to redo the map more like Fluid Core and Soul Reapers suggestions, Paths that wind in and out of a couple of mountains and break the one large outdoor area into 4 or more smaller ones. I'll also try to create more of the rock features with faces rather than props to cut down on the draw requirements of video cards and get a few more interesting map features.

    First I'm going to re-lay the floor of current map with lower elevations, get it working in a commander mode as a grey box and then give it to you guys to tear it apart again.

    Before I re-started the map I'd added rock lips to some of the pathways, later tonight I'll package up that release if anyone was interested in a look.
    Worthy's Co_Maps.
    ns2_co_assault Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_nest Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_chuteout Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_portals Marine Start and Room 5 Fourms, Workshop,

    Worthy's NS2_Maps.
    ns2_nanogrid Fourms, Workshop,

    Worthy's XS_Maps.
    xs_maze Workshop,

    Worthy's Marine Vs Marine Maps.
    mvm_assault Workshop,
    image
  • GohanZetaGohanZeta Join Date: 2010-11-18 Member: 74996Posts: 29Members, NS2 Playtester
    edited January 2012
    We could definitely do some gameplay tests in a gather later on today.

    We`re really looking forward to new Maps and are eager to help hammer out layout related unbalances and that alike
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Vladimir Van VodkaVladimir Van Vodka Sexy Beast Join Date: 2010-07-30 Member: 73364Posts: 310Members, Reinforced - Shadow
  • BroseidonBroseidon Join Date: 2011-07-18 Member: 110935Posts: 128Members
    edited January 2012
    I love what you did with the power nodes please keep it that way in the map. I also like the concept of the map with the mountains, holes and tunnels, imagine sliding down infested tunnels on your belly as a gorge like you were inside toilet pipes. I think it would look cool if the marine base looked a bit planetary like it's made to get set up quickly with some low walls, enter able structures, ramps, vehicles, light stands and maybe a big antenna or parabola. like it was dropped down from the sky/orbit or something and then built up.
    I hope it gives you some ideas :D
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    Steam: Calleohr
  • vlncvlnc Join Date: 2010-09-07 Member: 73921Posts: 241Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited January 2012
    I tried your map on local server and i found it fresh.
    Full rock environment and mountain feeling is good, we should try it on a gather for fun

    I would like to see a marine base like this image ... :D
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Posts: 1,868Members, Squad Five Blue
    By the way, check out our map/mod database on our site(check my signature for more detailed information).
    It provides you with an easy way to update your map, and gives you a download counter on your map.
    I encourage all map/mod makers to do so.
    As it's alot easier for players/server operators to find desired files this way, compared to browsing the forums.
    It's also an opportunity for more players to try out your mod. Not all players browse the forums.
    You can clearly see how popular ns2_turtle have become, it's over 270 downloads now!

    NS2 6v6 Gathers
    QUOTE (Floodinator @ Feb 28 2012, 08:41 PM) »
    it's always a good idea to kill swalk or he will kill you.
  • WorthyRivalWorthyRival Black Armor Division Join Date: 2006-11-07 Member: 58470Posts: 557Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    So I restarted this map a few days ago. Thought I'd share my progress.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32942522/ns2_nest%20remake1.level

    Still one more tech point to add. But you can run around it for testing.
    Worthy's Co_Maps.
    ns2_co_assault Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_nest Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_chuteout Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_portals Marine Start and Room 5 Fourms, Workshop,

    Worthy's NS2_Maps.
    ns2_nanogrid Fourms, Workshop,

    Worthy's XS_Maps.
    xs_maze Workshop,

    Worthy's Marine Vs Marine Maps.
    mvm_assault Workshop,
    image
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Posts: 3,305Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    I'm liking it. Will be interesting to see how it develops :)

    Slightly OT -

    I knew the OhNoes was big, but I didn't realise he was THAT big:

    image

    I think the current maps are definitely too small :P
  • WorthyRivalWorthyRival Black Armor Division Join Date: 2006-11-07 Member: 58470Posts: 557Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Off topic
    The Onos might not be. I rescaled the map as I thought it was a little small and I might of rescaled the model too.

    Worthy's Co_Maps.
    ns2_co_assault Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_nest Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_chuteout Fourms, Workshop,
    ns2_co_portals Marine Start and Room 5 Fourms, Workshop,

    Worthy's NS2_Maps.
    ns2_nanogrid Fourms, Workshop,

    Worthy's XS_Maps.
    xs_maze Workshop,

    Worthy's Marine Vs Marine Maps.
    mvm_assault Workshop,
    image
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.