<!--quoteo(post=1888541:date=Dec 5 2011, 05:54 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Dec 5 2011, 05:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888541"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The skulk actually has the deepest learning curve of the alien classes, which I guess is somewhat disappointing considering it's still not very deep. The rather complicated game of ambush/bait/timing/teamwork/dodging/tracking is still there just as much as before [...]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I would agree if it weren't for the rather poorly functioning sound-system currently. In NS1 the sound played such an incredibly large role, especially in the marine-skulk dynamic, it really was quite unlike most other games. Being able to deduce the position of a marine while hiding in a vent\on the other side of a wall using just the sound of his steps\jumps (or even lack of), became an art in and of itself, and played a huge role in the skulks sneak\ambush abilities. Of course hiding is still paramount in NS2, but the sound is of such a poor support in this it doesn't really feel like I'm doing anything but camping really, tediously waiting until I can physically see a marine passing by, it really takes the fun right out of it. Not to mention that as of 189 my sound is just completely broken, half the time everything is muffled and I can't hear a thing, and the other half it plainly doesn't work at all and I might as well just put on some music while playing.
@fana its not that complicated, i'm just bad at explaining it properly/easy. (not eloquent enough in English)
So what is your suggestion? Make everything like ns1, and maybe also remove all hitscan weapons into projectiles since hitscan is too easymode. :P (nah but, i agree on the movement part - but i dont have any ideas how to improve it without just saying copycat old stuff)
@yuuki i would like to make prototypes, but i have zero experience in coding - maybe its time to learn :P
<!--quoteo(post=1888557:date=Dec 6 2011, 05:48 AM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Dec 6 2011, 05:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888557"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would agree if it weren't for the rather poorly functioning sound-system currently. In NS1 the sound played such an incredibly large role, especially in the marine-skulk dynamic, it really was quite unlike most other games. Being able to deduce the position of a marine while hiding in a vent\on the other side of a wall using just the sound of his steps\jumps (or even lack of), became an art in and of itself, and played a huge role in the skulks sneak\ambush abilities. Of course hiding is still paramount in NS2, but the sound is of such a poor support in this it doesn't really feel like I'm doing anything but camping really, tediously waiting until I can physically see a marine passing by, it really takes the fun right out of it. Not to mention that as of 189 my sound is just completely broken, half the time everything is muffled and I can't hear a thing, and the other half it plainly doesn't work at all and I might as well just put on some music while playing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1888557:date=Dec 5 2011, 08:48 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Dec 5 2011, 08:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888557"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would agree if it weren't for the rather poorly functioning sound-system currently. In NS1 the sound played such an incredibly large role, especially in the marine-skulk dynamic, it really was quite unlike most other games. Being able to deduce the position of a marine while hiding in a vent\on the other side of a wall using just the sound of his steps\jumps (or even lack of), became an art in and of itself, and played a huge role in the skulks sneak\ambush abilities. Of course hiding is still paramount in NS2, but the sound is of such a poor support in this it doesn't really feel like I'm doing anything but camping really, tediously waiting until I can physically see a marine passing by, it really takes the fun right out of it. Not to mention that as of 189 my sound is just completely broken, half the time everything is muffled and I can't hear a thing, and the other half it plainly doesn't work at all and I might as well just put on some music while playing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah actually I forgot about the sound bit. Previous beta builds you could use sound (although to a much lesser degree than in NS1), but they added a "cool" effect on sounds emanating from other rooms a few versions ago which pretty much ruined what little there was. Couple that with the ambient sounds that were added to summit this version and... yeah, you might as well just put on some music. Hopefully they'll get around to fixing that at some point.
<!--quoteo(post=1888558:date=Dec 5 2011, 08:57 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Dec 5 2011, 08:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888558"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@yuuki i would like to make prototypes, but i have zero experience in coding - maybe its time to learn :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can help with the coding, but it's very easy once you found where things are.
ZeikkoJoin Date: 2007-12-16Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
edited December 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1888587:date=Dec 6 2011, 12:31 AM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Dec 6 2011, 12:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888587"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can help with the coding, but it's very easy once you found where things are.
Btw we can hear this sound bug where the voices don't stop after exiting blink, it has been around forever ! Or is it a feature ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good job Yuuki! It would be great if you modded the blink in transition like you suggested couple of months ago. I'm sure that wouldn't satisfy the people who want ns1 blink back, but it might make the current system much more balanced,, fun to play and add some make the skillcap higher.
<!--quoteo(post=1888587:date=Dec 6 2011, 12:31 AM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Dec 6 2011, 12:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888587"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can help with the coding, but it's very easy once you found where things are.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1888587:date=Dec 5 2011, 11:31 PM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Dec 5 2011, 11:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888587"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can help with the coding, but it's very easy once you found where things are.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's awsome! Looks really cool when it's like that. Is kept momentum the only tweak you did there? I took my first peak into lua today myself, tried to look into view rotation for skulks, and also planned to try out the blink I suggesed. Had no idea how to make the blink change though.
what great video, honestly such small change like that gave the blink more depth then current awkward movement. With more air control, and this sort of momentum we might have our movement needed for this class.
Kouji_San @
i don't believe you understand why better movement for aliens is needed.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1888637:date=Dec 5 2011, 08:25 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Dec 5 2011, 08:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888637"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Keeping momentum seems a bit too powerful though what with invulnerable blinking, it looks awesome though!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i don't believe you understand why better movement for aliens is needed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Right... And taking no damage + being invisible, with NS1 movement isn't too powerful at all <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/youreallwrong.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
[edit] Maybe the flamer could become the thing to damage the fade or drain the Fade's energy faster when in the nether --> tier 2 vs tier 2. Might be a good thing to test in a future build in combo with NS1 movement...
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
I remember when the flamethrowers would completely stop energy regeneration. All marines needed to do was turret farm and flamethrower spam and they were invincible.
But yes, a burning fade should still burn even when in the netherworld.
We should somehow know that we are getting shot by hydra. I can barely hear them and i dont really notice my healt going down...there should be somekind of indicator when you get it and make the hydra do more sound.
Yay, finally in! (sorry for the harsh email max/charlie, and thanx again max, waiting untill release is just to much of a tease!)
I have a couple of questions if the community could be so kind to tell/link me to where I should be asking this...
1. How much of a beast computer is needed for a dedicated server? How much data per month would a, say, 14 or 16 person dedicated server chew through? I live in NZ and can't find any decent servers, so something has to change.
2. If I play on say an Infomax server, with ping ~300, eventually with the inevitable 12 Whip march on the Marine spawn, the game crunches to less than 1 frame per second ... is this effect lagging out the server at all? Or am I not being to much of a Knob? I know in DoW2 all it takes is one dweeb with even their graphics up to high to munch the playability of everyone else in the match, but surely a FPS, with the insane amount of packets being transferred, is a bit different?
PS. That Yuuki's fade change looks way more fluid, also momentum is conserved so it doesn't matter what dimension your travelling in, as soon as you changed back to our observable 4-spacetime you'd still have to do some non instant decellerating...
Didn't read through all latest feedback but wanted to add 2 small things.
* The ingame voice thingy when pressing Z (taunt, follow me etc.) needs to be moved to the right as the commander and dropped items window covers the menu. * Now when Hydras can be placed upside down in the roof it is damn hard to snipe them out, just had a game where 2 hydras was on the other side of the door and their upside down base were covered and the tentacles aren't registering hits. Just couldn't take em out without running into a deathtrap.
Really like the flow and upgrade popups to the right (armor, damage). Starts to feel polished!
I'm not sure if this suggestion has been made yet, but I had an idea for the mines/nanoshield debate.
What if marines were given mines back (purchasable at the armory) and the nanoshield was activatable on MACs? So basically the commander used the shield ability by pushing a button on the MAC (at some resource cost and/or cooldown) and it extend a shield radius around the MAC where the marines are protected. I don't feel like this would be nearly as overpowered because the marines would have to stick with the MAC to stay protected and it would be up to the commander to move it. You could even make it to where the MAC itself wasn't protected by the shield if necessary and only the lifeforms around it.
Hydra/turret spam are worse than ever in this build, I played an alien game where I was the only alien playing while all the others were gorges and building crap all over the map. In another game the marine comm had the most kills in the team (turret spam). In many games the map was so crowded with stuff that the server was crashing.
Serious action has to be taken, like putting a hard limit on numbers of hydra/turrets, four would be good I think.
<!--quoteo(post=1888719:date=Dec 6 2011, 01:01 PM:name=Cerebral)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cerebral @ Dec 6 2011, 01:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888719"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure if this suggestion has been made yet, but I had an idea for the mines/nanoshield debate.
What if marines were given mines back (purchasable at the armory) and the nanoshield was activatable on MACs? So basically the commander used the shield ability by pushing a button on the MAC (at some resource cost and/or cooldown) and it extend a shield radius around the MAC where the marines are protected. I don't feel like this would be nearly as overpowered because the marines would have to stick with the MAC to stay protected and it would be up to the commander to move it. You could even make it to where the MAC itself wasn't protected by the shield if necessary and only the lifeforms around it.
Just a thought!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not sure whether I like the idea of nano shield in general, but I definitely like the idea of having more value put to MACs and their positioning as long as the pathing and control get smooth enough to allow satisfying gameplay build around it.
Yuuki, that's probably because it's quite fun and satisfying to make your own garden :P
<!--quoteo(post=1888723:date=Dec 6 2011, 03:11 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Dec 6 2011, 03:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888723"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There <i>was</i> a structure/web limit in 3.x NS1, wasn't there?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There was. It was quite annoying :) Sometimes ran into the issue with structures, but that was mostly in when building in a few different rooms physically close to eachother. Often encountered it with webs though.
Since Hydra "sleep" now, couldn't turrets do the same? I assume they don't already, as only hydras were mentioned.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2011
Shameless link to some issues I believe are essential to improving gameplay: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115515&st=40&p=1889156&#entry1889156" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...p;#entry1889156</a>
After playing a few rounds yesterday, it seems like builds 188/189 were disastrous on performance. Servers who were previously running at 30 ticks stable are now dropping to 25 even before the round has started. One step forward, two steps backward...
Good job on the momentum mod to the fade, that alone should make it more fun to use to travel around the map at least.
<!--quoteo(post=1889156:date=Dec 8 2011, 11:28 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Dec 8 2011, 11:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1889156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Some assorted thoughts...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I usually agree with fana so I decided to read this post with a critical eye to find something to disagree on. Unfortunately, after reading through it once, I have found nothing. I'll edit this post if I can think of anything. -- #5, movement systems, is the one I'm most interested in, because even if the overall state of the round is totally screwed up from various balance or strategy issues, you're always moving, so movement systems are always affecting your experience.
It's why NS1 was fun to play whether you're losing, winning, or just hanging out.
Comments
I would agree if it weren't for the rather poorly functioning sound-system currently. In NS1 the sound played such an incredibly large role, especially in the marine-skulk dynamic, it really was quite unlike most other games. Being able to deduce the position of a marine while hiding in a vent\on the other side of a wall using just the sound of his steps\jumps (or even lack of), became an art in and of itself, and played a huge role in the skulks sneak\ambush abilities. Of course hiding is still paramount in NS2, but the sound is of such a poor support in this it doesn't really feel like I'm doing anything but camping really, tediously waiting until I can physically see a marine passing by, it really takes the fun right out of it. Not to mention that as of 189 my sound is just completely broken, half the time everything is muffled and I can't hear a thing, and the other half it plainly doesn't work at all and I might as well just put on some music while playing.
you can ofc move.
@fana
its not that complicated, i'm just bad at explaining it properly/easy. (not eloquent enough in English)
So what is your suggestion?
Make everything like ns1, and maybe also remove all hitscan weapons into projectiles since hitscan is too easymode. :P
(nah but, i agree on the movement part - but i dont have any ideas how to improve it without just saying copycat old stuff)
@yuuki
i would like to make prototypes, but i have zero experience in coding - maybe its time to learn :P
This x 10
Yeah actually I forgot about the sound bit. Previous beta builds you could use sound (although to a much lesser degree than in NS1), but they added a "cool" effect on sounds emanating from other rooms a few versions ago which pretty much ruined what little there was. Couple that with the ambient sounds that were added to summit this version and... yeah, you might as well just put on some music. Hopefully they'll get around to fixing that at some point.
i would like to make prototypes, but i have zero experience in coding - maybe its time to learn :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can help with the coding, but it's very easy once you found where things are.
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BHplcHsIyiE"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BHplcHsIyiE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
Btw we can hear this sound bug where the voices don't stop after exiting blink, it has been around forever ! Or is it a feature ?
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BHplcHsIyiE"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BHplcHsIyiE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
Btw we can hear this sound bug where the voices don't stop after exiting blink, it has been around forever ! Or is it a feature ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good job Yuuki! It would be great if you modded the blink in transition like you suggested couple of months ago. I'm sure that wouldn't satisfy the people who want ns1 blink back, but it might make the current system much more balanced,, fun to play and add some make the skillcap higher.
This is awesome! =)
Also +1 to players sound post.
That's awsome! Looks really cool when it's like that. Is kept momentum the only tweak you did there? I took my first peak into lua today myself, tried to look into view rotation for skulks, and also planned to try out the blink I suggesed. Had no idea how to make the blink change though.
Kouji_San @
i don't believe you understand why better movement for aliens is needed.
*cough*bullets should still damage*cough*
i don't believe you understand why better movement for aliens is needed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right... And taking no damage + being invisible, with NS1 movement isn't too powerful at all <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/youreallwrong.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
[edit]
Maybe the flamer could become the thing to damage the fade or drain the Fade's energy faster when in the nether --> tier 2 vs tier 2. Might be a good thing to test in a future build in combo with NS1 movement...
But yes, a burning fade should still burn even when in the netherworld.
But 188 and 189 are good ones, cant wait for 190
If you complain about immortality while blink, -90% incoming reduction would be a solution maybe
I have a couple of questions if the community could be so kind to tell/link me to where I should be asking this...
1. How much of a beast computer is needed for a dedicated server? How much data per month would a, say, 14 or 16 person dedicated server chew through? I live in NZ and can't find any decent servers, so something has to change.
2. If I play on say an Infomax server, with ping ~300, eventually with the inevitable 12 Whip march on the Marine spawn, the game crunches to less than 1 frame per second ... is this effect lagging out the server at all? Or am I not being to much of a Knob? I know in DoW2 all it takes is one dweeb with even their graphics up to high to munch the playability of everyone else in the match, but surely a FPS, with the insane amount of packets being transferred, is a bit different?
PS. That Yuuki's fade change looks way more fluid, also momentum is conserved so it doesn't matter what dimension your travelling in, as soon as you changed back to our observable 4-spacetime you'd still have to do some non instant decellerating...
* The ingame voice thingy when pressing Z (taunt, follow me etc.) needs to be moved to the right as the commander and dropped items window covers the menu.
* Now when Hydras can be placed upside down in the roof it is damn hard to snipe them out, just had a game where 2 hydras was on the other side of the door and their upside down base were covered and the tentacles aren't registering hits. Just couldn't take em out without running into a deathtrap.
Really like the flow and upgrade popups to the right (armor, damage). Starts to feel polished!
What if marines were given mines back (purchasable at the armory) and the nanoshield was activatable on MACs? So basically the commander used the shield ability by pushing a button on the MAC (at some resource cost and/or cooldown) and it extend a shield radius around the MAC where the marines are protected. I don't feel like this would be nearly as overpowered because the marines would have to stick with the MAC to stay protected and it would be up to the commander to move it. You could even make it to where the MAC itself wasn't protected by the shield if necessary and only the lifeforms around it.
Just a thought!
Serious action has to be taken, like putting a hard limit on numbers of hydra/turrets, four would be good I think.
What if marines were given mines back (purchasable at the armory) and the nanoshield was activatable on MACs? So basically the commander used the shield ability by pushing a button on the MAC (at some resource cost and/or cooldown) and it extend a shield radius around the MAC where the marines are protected. I don't feel like this would be nearly as overpowered because the marines would have to stick with the MAC to stay protected and it would be up to the commander to move it. You could even make it to where the MAC itself wasn't protected by the shield if necessary and only the lifeforms around it.
Just a thought!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure whether I like the idea of nano shield in general, but I definitely like the idea of having more value put to MACs and their positioning as long as the pathing and control get smooth enough to allow satisfying gameplay build around it.
<!--quoteo(post=1888723:date=Dec 6 2011, 03:11 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Dec 6 2011, 03:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888723"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There <i>was</i> a structure/web limit in 3.x NS1, wasn't there?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There was. It was quite annoying :)
Sometimes ran into the issue with structures, but that was mostly in when building in a few different rooms physically close to eachother. Often encountered it with webs though.
Since Hydra "sleep" now, couldn't turrets do the same? I assume they don't already, as only hydras were mentioned.
After playing a few rounds yesterday, it seems like builds 188/189 were disastrous on performance. Servers who were previously running at 30 ticks stable are now dropping to 25 even before the round has started. One step forward, two steps backward...
Good job on the momentum mod to the fade, that alone should make it more fun to use to travel around the map at least.
I usually agree with fana so I decided to read this post with a critical eye to find something to disagree on. Unfortunately, after reading through it once, I have found nothing. I'll edit this post if I can think of anything.
--
#5, movement systems, is the one I'm most interested in, because even if the overall state of the round is totally screwed up from various balance or strategy issues, you're always moving, so movement systems are always affecting your experience.
It's why NS1 was fun to play whether you're losing, winning, or just hanging out.