dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
edited June 2012
210 is out and remove the energy. So both sides have only 1 ressource (t.res) to spend.
The t.res income is increased by 60%, so com can still support with meds and ammo. But if we have an com that dont use nano- build/shield and dont support the players, we have an com who is swimming in res. And what does those coms do? They build sentryfarms and arcstrains from hell.
While everything price is raised cause increased resincome, turrets and the robotics still cost the same as in 209. dont know if this was intended. So i change this. I think we have jetpacks and Grenadelauncher up to fast (around 5 min), so i increase the costs too.
In my opinion the 50 p.res fade is to fragile now (better hit detection from shotgun), so i incease the armor a bit.
Here are all changes i test right now on "Heidis Balancefarm (HBZ)":
Those changes look good, but shouldn't extractors go up in cost as well? They're still at 10, when pretty much everything else went up in price. IMO you could easily put them at 15. At 6 s per res, that's 90 s to earn back the RT cost. (From 8x 10 or 80s pre210) Either way, surely the (210b) 50 seconds is WAY too fast, as is 60 seconds with this mod.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
edited June 2012
Ok, here is another try to balance 210 a bit.
Its based the fact that marines can build stuff insane fast with nanoconstruct. So i reduce the duration of nanoconstruct a bit and incease the buildtimes of all structures.
I increase the researchtime of higher tech also to slow things down a bit (arc, jetpack, advanced armory, phasegate)
I remove the startip for testing (marines have to spend more res for an 2nd ip now, start t.res 35 should have the same effect)
As the fade is so weak in 210 and nearly useless without vortex, incease armor and hp a bit.
Here are all values running on "Heidis Ziegenfarms 3 (HBZ)" right now, default values in ():
start p.res 15 (25) restick/sec 6 (5) no startip arc range 22 (26)
fade hp 220 (200) FadeArmor = 60 (50) Fade extra armor = 40 (30)
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2012
New tweaks for 212:
I remain with most changes i made for 210 + some extra ones like inceased speedlose with cara for skulk. There only changes of build and researchtimes.
These changes run on "Heidis Ziegenfarm 3 (HBZ) - balancemod" for testing.
Disable Turrets, cause they have an error wich affect the server and nearly useless in 212 anyway (you need an powerpack for each turret most of the time for example)
Adding longer research time isn't gonna solve the problem. You are still gonna get so much res you don't have anything to spend them on except cysts and whips. Instead of research time, I will suggest changing costs. Getting an upgrade should make you unable to get something else. This will just delay all problems, not solve them..
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
edited June 2012
"isn't gonna solve the problem"- What problem? I know that you cannot balancing stuff only through times, but i do that:
a: want to see how game plays only with increased times b: increased costs would not shown in the game cause they are part of the gui
Btw. there is a huge difference in balancing for public and competition. Maybe we should find something between or have to balance 2 settings wich can be switchable via mod. You cannot balance skill, so if a team is better, then it is. But im sure the losing team is going to complain about ....
Im just playing around a bit. I want to see how these "little" changes (only research and buildtimes) affect to the gameplay and wand to test them in real conditions (publicserver) So, if someone dont like these changes, tell me or dont join the server.
I love that you are doing this dePARA. More sever owners trying different stuff is a good thing. So cheers to you for doing this.
What I wanted is to give another perspective on it. I mean, if you only wanted to see how things pan out by changing times, ofc you can do that. I however, wishes a grander goal: I want the game to be balanced. So when I say "isn't gonna solve the problem", I mean "isn't gonna solve balance".
And yes, if one team has higher skill, that team should win most of the times. And that is what I mean is true balance, that in most of the games, the most skilled team wins. But when you say that there is a difference in balance in pub and comp, I really have to disagree. A game is only balanced if its balanced for the top of the top (Flash/MVP, Jeadong/Nestea, Bisu/MC). It doesn't matter if its 50/50 in pub or in platinum league, if its still 100/0 in comp. Because as soon as some good comp. players will join a server, they can skew the stats just be exploiting different weakness and unbalances in the match up. Just because the pub players don't get how to play the game properly (which might get you to your 50/50), it doesn't mean the game is balanced. So there shouldn't be any difference between pub/comp. Pub will get balanced when its balanced for the top comp. players.
Comments
The t.res income is increased by 60%, so com can still support with meds and ammo.
But if we have an com that dont use nano- build/shield and dont support the players, we have an com who is swimming in res.
And what does those coms do? They build sentryfarms and arcstrains from hell.
While everything price is raised cause increased resincome, turrets and the robotics still cost the same as in 209. dont know if this was intended. So i change this.
I think we have jetpacks and Grenadelauncher up to fast (around 5 min), so i increase the costs too.
In my opinion the 50 p.res fade is to fragile now (better hit detection from shotgun), so i incease the armor a bit.
Here are all changes i test right now on "Heidis Balancefarm (HBZ)":
balance.lua
kRoboticsFactoryCost = 20 (default 15)
kUpgradeRoboticsFactoryCost = 25 (default 20)
kAdvancedArmoryUpgradeCost = 30 (default 20)
kSentryCost = 15 (default 10)
kResourceTowerResourceInterval = 6 (default 5)
balancehealth.lua
kFadeArmorFullyUpgradedAmount = 40 (default 30)
Small problem: the changed values didnt show ingame, cause they are part of the gui (client)
Update: As the server is empty most of the time, i revert to normal settings
If 15 is too high, you could put it at 12.
Its based the fact that marines can build stuff insane fast with nanoconstruct.
So i reduce the duration of nanoconstruct a bit and incease the buildtimes of all structures.
I increase the researchtime of higher tech also to slow things down a bit (arc, jetpack, advanced armory, phasegate)
I remove the startip for testing (marines have to spend more res for an 2nd ip now, start t.res 35 should have the same effect)
As the fade is so weak in 210 and nearly useless without vortex, incease armor and hp a bit.
Here are all values running on "Heidis Ziegenfarms 3 (HBZ)" right now, default values in ():
start p.res 15 (25)
restick/sec 6 (5)
no startip
arc range 22 (26)
fade hp 220 (200)
FadeArmor = 60 (50)
Fade extra armor = 40 (30)
arc researchtime: 60 (40)
kAdvancedArmoryResearchTime = 120 (90)
kJetpackTechResearchTime = 120 (90)
kPhaseTechResearchTime = 60 (45)
kPowerPointBuildTime = 8 (5)
kARCBuildTime = 40 (20)
kSentryBuildTime = 20 (10)
kExtractorBuildTime = 20 (15)
kPrototypeLabBuildTime = 30 (20)
kArmsLabBuildTime = 30 (19 - strange value btw)
kArmoryBuildTime = 15 (12)
kCommandStationBuildTime = 20 (15)
kRoboticsFactoryBuildTime = 35 (25)
kObservatoryBuildTime = 20 (15)
kPhaseGateBuildTime = 15 (12)
kNanoConstructDuration = 6 (8)
kNanoShieldDuration = 10 (12)
I remain with most changes i made for 210 + some extra ones like inceased speedlose with cara for skulk.
There only changes of build and researchtimes.
These changes run on "Heidis Ziegenfarm 3 (HBZ) - balancemod" for testing.
Disable Turrets, cause they have an error wich affect the server and nearly useless in 212 anyway (you need an powerpack for each turret most of the time for example)
kPlayerInitialIndivRes = 15 (20)
Teamres =35 (50)
1 initial drifter
kLerkArmorFullyUpgradedAmount = 80 (100)
kSkulkArmorFullyUpgradedAmount = 30 (50)
kfadeArmorFullyUpgradedAmount = 100 (80)
marines:
kUpgradeRoboticsFactoryTime = 60 (40)
kAdvancedArmoryResearchTime = 120 (90)
kJetpackTechResearchTime = 180 (90)
kPhaseTechResearchTime = 60 (45)
kMineResearchTime = 40 (20)
kTechMACSpeedResearchTime = 45 (15)
kGrenadeLauncherTechResearchTime = 40 (20)
kPowerPointBuildTime = 8 (5)
kARCBuildTime = 40 (20)
kSentryBuildTime = 20 (10)
kExtractorBuildTime = 20 (15)
kPrototypeLabBuildTime = 30 (20)
kArmsLabBuildTime = 30 (19 - strange value btw)
kArmoryBuildTime = 15 (12)
kCommandStationBuildTime = 20 (15)
kRoboticsFactoryBuildTime = 35 (25)
kObservatoryBuildTime = 20 (15)
kPhaseGateBuildTime = 15 (12)
kMACBuildTime = 10 (5)
kInfantryPortalBuildTime = 10 (7)
kPowerPackBuildTime = 15 (10)
kNanoConstructDuration = 6 (8)
kNanoShieldDuration = 10 (12)
aliens:
kBileBombResearchTime = 90 (60)
kLeapResearchTime = 120 (60)
kStompResearchTime = 150 (90)
kBlinkResearchTime = 120 (90)
kVortexResearchTime = 150 (140)
kSpikesResearchTime = 120 (90)
kCarapaceResearchTime = 30 (15)
kRegenerationResearchTime = 30 (15)
kAuraResearchTime = 30 (15)
kCamouflageResearchTime = 30 (15)
kSilenceResearchTime = 30 (15)
kCelerityResearchTime = 30 (15)
kHyperMutationResearchTime = 20 (15)
kAdrenalineResearchTime = 30 (15)
kPiercingResearchTime = 30 (15)
kHiveBuildTime = 180 (120)
CystCooldown = 2 (.333)
AlienRegenerationTime = 6
kSkulkCarapaceSpeedReduction = 0.09 (0.08)
I know that you cannot balancing stuff only through times, but i do that:
a: want to see how game plays only with increased times
b: increased costs would not shown in the game cause they are part of the gui
Btw. there is a huge difference in balancing for public and competition.
Maybe we should find something between or have to balance 2 settings wich can be switchable via mod.
You cannot balance skill, so if a team is better, then it is. But im sure the losing team is going to complain about ....
Im just playing around a bit. I want to see how these "little" changes (only research and buildtimes) affect to the gameplay and wand to test them in real conditions (publicserver)
So, if someone dont like these changes, tell me or dont join the server.
What I wanted is to give another perspective on it. I mean, if you only wanted to see how things pan out by changing times, ofc you can do that. I however, wishes a grander goal: I want the game to be balanced. So when I say "isn't gonna solve the problem", I mean "isn't gonna solve balance".
And yes, if one team has higher skill, that team should win most of the times. And that is what I mean is true balance, that in most of the games, the most skilled team wins. But when you say that there is a difference in balance in pub and comp, I really have to disagree. A game is only balanced if its balanced for the top of the top (Flash/MVP, Jeadong/Nestea, Bisu/MC). It doesn't matter if its 50/50 in pub or in platinum league, if its still 100/0 in comp. Because as soon as some good comp. players will join a server, they can skew the stats just be exploiting different weakness and unbalances in the match up. Just because the pub players don't get how to play the game properly (which might get you to your 50/50), it doesn't mean the game is balanced. So there shouldn't be any difference between pub/comp. Pub will get balanced when its balanced for the top comp. players.