zombiehellmonkeyJoin Date: 2007-08-31Member: 62093Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1892917:date=Jan 6 2012, 08:23 PM:name=fmpone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fmpone @ Jan 6 2012, 08:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1892917"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Either way I can tell that we're dealing with somebody with an advanced understanding of geometry...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2012
I like the lighting a lot, and everything else that it supports. Having rules and conventions is a good thing but they shouldn't be held as absolute truth. People will say you can't do that until you just do it and show it works too.
-Edit, You know I think rules we create ourselves for the project in question are much more powerful than general established rules. Those established rules are very different depending to culture too, video games from USA, Europe and Asia are very different graphically. So as much people say, those established rules are just a trend anyway. In time people will like different stuff. If we create rules for the project, the project can become timeless, while if you go for a trend in time, you map will not have that appeal and will be valuable only in a point in time.
zombiehellmonkeyJoin Date: 2007-08-31Member: 62093Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1893054:date=Jan 7 2012, 04:27 PM:name=Evil_bOb1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evil_bOb1 @ Jan 7 2012, 04:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893054"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the lighting a lot, and everything else that it supports. Having rules and conventions is a good thing but they shouldn't be held as absolute truth. People will say you can't do that until you just do it and show it works too.
-Edit, You know I think rules we create ourselves for the project in question are much more powerful than general established rules. Those established rules are very different depending to culture too, video games from USA, Europe and Asia are very different graphically. So as much people say, those established rules are just a trend anyway. In time people will like different stuff. If we create rules for the project, the project can become timeless, while if you go for a trend in time, you map will not have that appeal and will be valuable only in a point in time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're absolutely right Evil_Bob1, and I totally agree with what you said. I remember that there was a rule against lighting in such a way to wash parts of an image out and create so-called 'white-spots', which I always wondered about because I've always thought they look realistic, but you look at many of the latest games like Battlefield 3, and you see that you get that in-game. Also stupid rules for shooting movies, like avoiding lens flare, when nowadays post-production teams will go through efforts to put simulated lens-flare into a shot. The rules are good as a guideline, but if you have strong reasons to break a rule then that's perfectly fine because it comes down to personal taste at the end of the day - there will always be some people who like it, and some people who don't, and those who don't give a crap either way.
As a general rule for my own way of working, I like to start simple, then build complexity into it. Lighting is the same, you start with the main light which decides where the shadows are, then you add your fill light to give detail to the shadows then maybe a backlight to add contours to the subject. If you start with a hundred lights, you lose your intent.
Thanks for asking man, yep I am still plugging away at this!
Some interesting discussion on lighting and good suggestions. I will be adjusting everything later of course, I usually just throw down white lights and go from there. Most haven't been tweaked at all yet! So no dramas there.
Worth noting however, There are a few rules I have set for myself which make for intuitive navigation, especially for beginners. - RP/TP rooms are whiter and brighter than others. - Major (suit ONOs) rooms/corridors are yellowish - Minor (not for ONOs) rooms are orange/redish, darker than others and much more claustrophobic. - Vents and such are red.
Here is an example of a smaller corridor/room with the yellow feel. WIP of course. This is the kind of basic industrial feel I like for this map.
zombiehellmonkeyJoin Date: 2007-08-31Member: 62093Members, Squad Five Blue
Hey alibi,
love the last couple of screenshots - they have a real grungy look of a falling apart junk space station that I really like. The lighting, especially the hints of red add to the atmospheric feel. I hope you continue with this look, as out of all the maps that want to achieve the grunge look, you've done it the best - it looks like this place has been broken and patched over and over again! Good job.
I really like what I see from your screenshots. Good job!
Just wanna to give you my opinion about lights - as already somebody mentioned - careful with the white color! In that last couple of screenshots, the white lights under the computer monitors look little bit out of place and break the mood of scene. With other (corner and pipe) lights I dont see no problem, maybe try to experiment shifting them little bit to yelow...
For the older screenshots - I like how you lit your rooms white, and I see your point, but I think, you should tone down those red lights, try orange, it should look more harmonic.
Thanks for the kind words lads. I really enjoyed the grungier feel maps in original NS and am enjoying the challenge finding the style I like.
Also good suggestions on lighting. Most white from the other rooms will be slightly yellowed. Trying not to spent too much time tweaking RBG values scenes as the 'custom colour' thing doesn't work properly for me? anyone else? Should be revisting those rooms shortly as I get closer to polishing the connecting hallways.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
Same goes to you, like all the other mappers and modders of the community. You're very welcome to use our map/mod database to host your files(whenever you're ready). All you need to do is sign up on duplexgaming.co.uk - and wait for me to change your membergroup. After that you will be able to go to "Admin" in the topleft, then "Downloads", then the "Maps" button to add a map.
I can also help you get some 6v6 testing on your map when you reach a first release. I am admin of NS2 gathers on ENSL, and we're keen to help the community mappers get some playtesting done. Can't wait to play this map.
I love everything and you are on a high enough level that I don't really know what to say except good luck and PLEASE keep going. Aesthetics are amazing, and I hope the map layout will work for pro gaming and for random game play. I am most excited about this map out of them all.
Heaps of progress rebuilding the ajoining rooms, should have something for video sooner than expected. Have to say, working with this engine really is a pleasure. Kudos, UWE!
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2012
Once again I think that your geometry is quite interesting but your lighting less so. You've shown good improvement throughout the thread, however.
If I were you, I would delete all my lights and pick a primary color, that soothing orange you have there is nice. I would use that everywhere,so that not a single corner was unduly dark, to properly light the space so that players could walk around. Then I would very carefully add a complimentary color -- one or two at the very most -- only in a few spots, with intensity. The end result is a well lit scene with around just 3 very identifiable, memorable colors used. The nice thing about these earlier shots (http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb103/smeered/ns/ns2_esoteric_wip0011.jpg) was that the white in them very nicely fulfilled the role of "primary color" and the red one of your "secondary colors". You're drifting a bit away from that now, as there are simply too many different color tones in your latest shots IMO... Shall we count them? Orange. Bright orange. White. Blue. Red.
Simple scenes are stronger scenes. This goes for your geometry as well, which shows competence but not a good idea of "place". Looking at sci-fi concept art can be a good place to begin. You simply need less things to look at and more prominent things to focus on. Looking at those screenshots I would say: "what is this place? What is it's function? Where are the symbols of that function, the crane for cargo, the machine for machinery stuff, the computers for computers, etc, etc, etc.
Symmetry would also be of use in these screenshots, too many stray props can overwhelm the eye and leave the viewer with the impression that there isn't much order to the area. In the midst of these crits I think it's best not to lose perspective of the big picture, you're progressing with Spark at a great rate, and I think you will continue to do so as long as you keep with it!
lol guy, I'm really not sure why you feel like reaming me a new one everytime I post something. Sad panda! :(
I don't really want to have to justify myself. I can ask exactly the same questions about your work (which I actually rate, surprisingly). Also, I don't see you applying such critique to anyone else work here either?
Anyways, why so much ego? Are you the artistic director?
Look closely, the room actually is symmetrical. The trick is disguising it to create distinguishing features. The room is orange. Said complimentary colour is safety orange. Whiter lights carefully decided to guide the player.
InsaneAnomalyJoin Date: 2002-05-13Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
edited March 2012
Looking cool, alibi, nice work!
Not sure I agree with fmpone about the lighting, I think it has a nice gritty, industrial feel to it. My only issue with it is that it could use more of a focal point, so I'd brighten up that area around the resnode, which would signpost it as a gameplay element as well.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1916547:date=Mar 23 2012, 11:05 AM:name=alibi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (alibi @ Mar 23 2012, 11:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916547"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->lol guy, I'm really not sure why you feel like reaming me a new one everytime I post something. Sad panda! :(
I don't really want to have to justify myself. I can ask exactly the same questions about your work (which I actually rate, surprisingly). Also, I don't see you applying such critique to anyone else work here either?
Anyways, why so much ego? Are you the artistic director?
Look closely, the room actually is symmetrical. The trick is disguising it to create distinguishing features. The room is orange. Said complimentary colour is safety orange. Whiter lights carefully decided to guide the player.
Don't hate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He did not hate, Nowhere did he hate. He gave you very helpful constructive criticism, which you can listen to or not. As advice for a map being made for NS2, it was very good advice. Maybe you should stop asking for advice/comments if you do not want honest advice, and maybe just ask for praise on each pic instead.
This is a community that likes to help mappers make the best map they can. If you know better, or disagree with the comments, don't implement them, but just remember you are asking for comments. You said you rate his work, so why would you not listen to his advice?
You're map is good, but the last shots, I have to agree with fmpone, there is to much disorder, and too many colours. Also, as an aside, how easy is it to move around the walls of that room as a skulk? There doesn't seem to be much clear wall for wall-jumping or wall-walking. Although that could be because of the angles you have taken the pictures at.
It's a great map, but to make it really special, you should listen to the advice people offer, rather than mis-interpreting it as hate. We, as a community, only try to help :)
<!--quoteo(post=1916534:date=Mar 23 2012, 08:16 AM:name=fmpone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fmpone @ Mar 23 2012, 08:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916534"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In the midst of these crits I think it's best not to lose perspective of the big picture, you're progressing with Spark at a great rate, and I think you will continue to do so as long as you keep with it!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your lighting is definitely MUCH improved from your first shots. I agree with Insane, it has a nice industrial feel to it, however FMPone makes some good points as well. I would take some of his really good constructive criticism and apply it to your map in places.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1916547:date=Mar 23 2012, 06:05 AM:name=alibi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (alibi @ Mar 23 2012, 06:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916547"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->lol guy, I'm really not sure why you feel like reaming me a new one everytime I post something. Sad panda! :(
I don't really want to have to justify myself. I can ask exactly the same questions about your work (which I actually rate, surprisingly). Also, I don't see you applying such critique to anyone else work here either?
Anyways, why so much ego? Are you the artistic director?
Look closely, the room actually is symmetrical. The trick is disguising it to create distinguishing features. The room is orange. Said complimentary colour is safety orange. Whiter lights carefully decided to guide the player.
Don't hate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nothing personal to it at all mate, hope it didn't seem like a bummer. If you want, go back and re-read it and I don't think it will seem so harsh at all. Like I say, the fact that you're getting better and better is a good thing, but I know the feeling of reaching major accomplishments and wanting to focus on the good. I'm with you on that. I should have opened with "hey man, nice work." And that's my bad.
Anyways, sorry alibi if you felt any animosity at all -- all the constructive feedback I try to give you is a sure sign that I take your work very seriously, more serious than most in fact. Many people who post in this forum aren't doing as well as you are. That's maybe why it seems like a lot for you. Please stick around and keep it up :)
<!--quoteo(post=1916547:date=Mar 23 2012, 11:05 AM:name=alibi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (alibi @ Mar 23 2012, 11:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916547"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyways, why so much ego? Are you the artistic director?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually it looks like that, you are the one putting ego in :-) Maybe you just had bad day and lost your temper...
Although, I don't fully agree with fmpone, it doesn't mean that, he is not giving you good advice. Maybe you have the feeling that he is picking on you, because he doesn't post in another map threads so often. But lets face it, most of the maps in this forum are not aesthetically top, nothing to comment on - mostly somebody's first work.
So as he already stated, you should take his advices as a apprecitiation, that your map is worth his time :-)
Sorry boys, I'm sure you can appreciate the hours involved here but to receive such straight off the bat can be a bit of a downer! Look i am just taking it as i see it. Even if our styles and opinions differ. Never the less I appreciate it and have taken all advice on board a lot, of course. Sometimes Screenies don't do justice for the feel of the space. I have a lot of respect for you guys building crazy ######. Adjoining rooms are much cleaner and more.. Organised. So here is effectively a corridor with more action. Much love to you all! And not nearly as much animosity as it may have come across from me either. Now to listen to some Sevendust!
Ps even though it looks complex. Skulk plays real nice and has good access to ceiling areas! :) Trust me I am working HARD to get you guys something to play with.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If I were you, I would delete all my lights and pick a primary color, that soothing orange you have there is nice.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you tell him to <b>delete all his lights</b>, it makes it sound like the lighting is horrible (which is not, btw), even if it's not in his intention to say this, it just sounds like that.
I personally don't see anything too wrong about the lighting, myself, I agree with Insane, actually.
If more than a quarter of what i see is in complete shadow you're doing it wrong, try turning up the brightness and/or distance light is cast, no one would use lighting like you have in the real world, what is this ridiculous trend of poorly lit maps, i guess the devs are to blame for starting it but it's time it stopped, i don't mind the odd map being a bit dark in places but some have taken it to the extreme.
Loving the look of your map, but I'd like you to take some skulk gameplay related things into consideration. I've highlighted some parts that I think are problematic as they are: All the little trims that actually change the height of the ground are bad for skulks, because the skulks have sort of a bunnyhopping mechanic along the ground. If your jump lands unfortunately right at the edge of one of the small elevations on the ground, you lose all your speed. Summit has a lot of these, and now as psykoman can't work on it anymore, we have to go through all of them and smooth them out with clipping brushes etc. I also highlighted the strangely shaped column props because they have quite an unfriendly shape to them in terms of skulk jumping. You might want to wrap them in a simple clipping geometry for the skulks to jump along. The skulk jumping mechanic relies heavily on being able to land safely on the wall and on the ground without obstacles slowing one down.
Also it's hard to understand the exact size of the rooms from the screenshots, but some areas feel quite cramped and very lerk unfriendly. But there seem to be some bigger 'safety rooms' as well.
Either way, keep up the good work. When you have the basic layout done and want some gameplay testing done, be sure to release it for ENSL gather play. :)
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
I find your lighting Amazing Alibi!! I can tell you constructed this through experiencing your work and enriching it with circumstances, moments, crescendos and diminuendos! Truly a dynamic space! Magical and Esoteric!
Go where your heart tells you. Explore! Enrich! Experience! You have a sensitivity that most lack! Go where no man has dared to go! Bold and sure!
Your work is definitely something one has to experience. It is not that type of work where screenshots do justice to the quality of the space. I am sure you need to move around the space to understand its complex and rich order.
I have the eye for it so I see it. It is a bottom up approach. From little things big things grow!
To me this is how to understand 'criticism', listen to what people say, and if people don't understand, it is not because you are wrong, but because you haven't clearly expressed your soul intention. Use people's judgmental mind to move deeper into your force of expression.
That is the nature of esoteric, only a few will understand. Most people rely on books and their mind, others rely on experience and their heart!
Rebuilt (part of) existing marine spawn last couple days. Considered scrapping it entirely because I didn't like it much anymore. Anyways, with a bit of work it's growing on me as alien spawn. Feels nice to run around, some nice ceiling space to crawl. So that it is! I hope you like it more than I do haha.
not heaps happy with the lighting here but you get the idea. More time building, less time lighting at the minute. Likely keep the warmer colours for alien 'half' of the map and a bit cooler over with the Marines because marines are so damn cool.
Comments
The white light isn't the problem, well it is and it isn't. Just don't use 255 255 255. Make it slightly off white and you'll be cool.
You mean like Pythagoras :P
-Edit, You know I think rules we create ourselves for the project in question are much more powerful than general established rules. Those established rules are very different depending to culture too, video games from USA, Europe and Asia are very different graphically. So as much people say, those established rules are just a trend anyway. In time people will like different stuff. If we create rules for the project, the project can become timeless, while if you go for a trend in time, you map will not have that appeal and will be valuable only in a point in time.
-Edit, You know I think rules we create ourselves for the project in question are much more powerful than general established rules. Those established rules are very different depending to culture too, video games from USA, Europe and Asia are very different graphically. So as much people say, those established rules are just a trend anyway. In time people will like different stuff. If we create rules for the project, the project can become timeless, while if you go for a trend in time, you map will not have that appeal and will be valuable only in a point in time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're absolutely right Evil_Bob1, and I totally agree with what you said. I remember that there was a rule against lighting in such a way to wash parts of an image out and create so-called 'white-spots', which I always wondered about because I've always thought they look realistic, but you look at many of the latest games like Battlefield 3, and you see that you get that in-game. Also stupid rules for shooting movies, like avoiding lens flare, when nowadays post-production teams will go through efforts to put simulated lens-flare into a shot. The rules are good as a guideline, but if you have strong reasons to break a rule then that's perfectly fine because it comes down to personal taste at the end of the day - there will always be some people who like it, and some people who don't, and those who don't give a crap either way.
As a general rule for my own way of working, I like to start simple, then build complexity into it. Lighting is the same, you start with the main light which decides where the shadows are, then you add your fill light to give detail to the shadows then maybe a backlight to add contours to the subject. If you start with a hundred lights, you lose your intent.
Some interesting discussion on lighting and good suggestions. I will be adjusting everything later of course, I usually just throw down white lights and go from there. Most haven't been tweaked at all yet! So no dramas there.
Worth noting however,
There are a few rules I have set for myself which make for intuitive navigation, especially for beginners.
- RP/TP rooms are whiter and brighter than others.
- Major (suit ONOs) rooms/corridors are yellowish
- Minor (not for ONOs) rooms are orange/redish, darker than others and much more claustrophobic.
- Vents and such are red.
Here is an example of a smaller corridor/room with the yellow feel. WIP of course.
This is the kind of basic industrial feel I like for this map.
<img src="http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb103/smeered/ns/ns2_esoteric_wip0015.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
anyways not much else ready show yet!
back later.
I really hope you guys like it!
<img src="http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb103/smeered/ns/ns2_esoteric_wip0016.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb103/smeered/ns/ns2_esoteric_wip0017.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
note: all shots are from editor only so no atmospherics.
barrels etc just there to show scale.
love the last couple of screenshots - they have a real grungy look of a falling apart junk space station that I really like. The lighting, especially the hints of red add to the atmospheric feel. I hope you continue with this look, as out of all the maps that want to achieve the grunge look, you've done it the best - it looks like this place has been broken and patched over and over again! Good job.
Just wanna to give you my opinion about lights - as already somebody mentioned - careful with the white color! In that last couple of screenshots, the white lights under the computer monitors look little bit out of place and break the mood of scene. With other (corner and pipe) lights I dont see no problem, maybe try to experiment shifting them little bit to yelow...
For the older screenshots - I like how you lit your rooms white, and I see your point, but I think, you should tone down those red lights, try orange, it should look more harmonic.
But overall, good job!
I really enjoyed the grungier feel maps in original NS and am enjoying the challenge finding the style I like.
Also good suggestions on lighting. Most white from the other rooms will be slightly yellowed. Trying not to spent too much time tweaking RBG values scenes as the 'custom colour' thing doesn't work properly for me? anyone else?
Should be revisting those rooms shortly as I get closer to polishing the connecting hallways.
think we could get a map view of it ?
You're very welcome to use our map/mod database to host your files(whenever you're ready).
All you need to do is sign up on duplexgaming.co.uk - and wait for me to change your membergroup.
After that you will be able to go to "Admin" in the topleft, then "Downloads", then the "Maps" button to add a map.
I can also help you get some 6v6 testing on your map when you reach a first release.
I am admin of NS2 gathers on ENSL, and we're keen to help the community mappers get some playtesting done.
Can't wait to play this map.
Best of luck!
<img src="http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb103/smeered/ns/ns2_esoteric_wip0018.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb103/smeered/ns/ns2_esoteric_wip0019.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Heaps of progress rebuilding the ajoining rooms, should have something for video sooner than expected.
Have to say, working with this engine really is a pleasure. Kudos, UWE!
If I were you, I would delete all my lights and pick a primary color, that soothing orange you have there is nice. I would use that everywhere,so that not a single corner was unduly dark, to properly light the space so that players could walk around. Then I would very carefully add a complimentary color -- one or two at the very most -- only in a few spots, with intensity. The end result is a well lit scene with around just 3 very identifiable, memorable colors used. The nice thing about these earlier shots (http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb103/smeered/ns/ns2_esoteric_wip0011.jpg) was that the white in them very nicely fulfilled the role of "primary color" and the red one of your "secondary colors". You're drifting a bit away from that now, as there are simply too many different color tones in your latest shots IMO... Shall we count them? Orange. Bright orange. White. Blue. Red.
Simple scenes are stronger scenes. This goes for your geometry as well, which shows competence but not a good idea of "place". Looking at sci-fi concept art can be a good place to begin. You simply need less things to look at and more prominent things to focus on. Looking at those screenshots I would say: "what is this place? What is it's function? Where are the symbols of that function, the crane for cargo, the machine for machinery stuff, the computers for computers, etc, etc, etc.
Symmetry would also be of use in these screenshots, too many stray props can overwhelm the eye and leave the viewer with the impression that there isn't much order to the area. In the midst of these crits I think it's best not to lose perspective of the big picture, you're progressing with Spark at a great rate, and I think you will continue to do so as long as you keep with it!
I don't really want to have to justify myself. I can ask exactly the same questions about your work (which I actually rate, surprisingly).
Also, I don't see you applying such critique to anyone else work here either?
Anyways, why so much ego? Are you the artistic director?
Look closely, the room actually is symmetrical. The trick is disguising it to create distinguishing features. The room is orange. Said complimentary colour is safety orange. Whiter lights carefully decided to guide the player.
Don't hate.
Not sure I agree with fmpone about the lighting, I think it has a nice gritty, industrial feel to it. My only issue with it is that it could use more of a focal point, so I'd brighten up that area around the resnode, which would signpost it as a gameplay element as well.
I don't really want to have to justify myself. I can ask exactly the same questions about your work (which I actually rate, surprisingly).
Also, I don't see you applying such critique to anyone else work here either?
Anyways, why so much ego? Are you the artistic director?
Look closely, the room actually is symmetrical. The trick is disguising it to create distinguishing features. The room is orange. Said complimentary colour is safety orange. Whiter lights carefully decided to guide the player.
Don't hate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He did not hate, Nowhere did he hate. He gave you very helpful constructive criticism, which you can listen to or not. As advice for a map being made for NS2, it was very good advice. Maybe you should stop asking for advice/comments if you do not want honest advice, and maybe just ask for praise on each pic instead.
This is a community that likes to help mappers make the best map they can. If you know better, or disagree with the comments, don't implement them, but just remember you are asking for comments. You said you rate his work, so why would you not listen to his advice?
You're map is good, but the last shots, I have to agree with fmpone, there is to much disorder, and too many colours. Also, as an aside, how easy is it to move around the walls of that room as a skulk? There doesn't seem to be much clear wall for wall-jumping or wall-walking. Although that could be because of the angles you have taken the pictures at.
It's a great map, but to make it really special, you should listen to the advice people offer, rather than mis-interpreting it as hate. We, as a community, only try to help :)
<!--quoteo(post=1916534:date=Mar 23 2012, 08:16 AM:name=fmpone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fmpone @ Mar 23 2012, 08:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916534"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In the midst of these crits I think it's best not to lose perspective of the big picture, you're progressing with Spark at a great rate, and I think you will continue to do so as long as you keep with it!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How is he hating?
Good work, improving with every post! :-)
I don't really want to have to justify myself. I can ask exactly the same questions about your work (which I actually rate, surprisingly).
Also, I don't see you applying such critique to anyone else work here either?
Anyways, why so much ego? Are you the artistic director?
Look closely, the room actually is symmetrical. The trick is disguising it to create distinguishing features. The room is orange. Said complimentary colour is safety orange. Whiter lights carefully decided to guide the player.
Don't hate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nothing personal to it at all mate, hope it didn't seem like a bummer. If you want, go back and re-read it and I don't think it will seem so harsh at all. Like I say, the fact that you're getting better and better is a good thing, but I know the feeling of reaching major accomplishments and wanting to focus on the good. I'm with you on that. I should have opened with "hey man, nice work." And that's my bad.
Anyways, sorry alibi if you felt any animosity at all -- all the constructive feedback I try to give you is a sure sign that I take your work very seriously, more serious than most in fact. Many people who post in this forum aren't doing as well as you are. That's maybe why it seems like a lot for you. Please stick around and keep it up :)
Actually it looks like that, you are the one putting ego in :-) Maybe you just had bad day and lost your temper...
Although, I don't fully agree with fmpone, it doesn't mean that, he is not giving you good advice. Maybe you have the feeling that he is picking on you, because he doesn't post in another map threads so often. But lets face it, most of the maps in this forum are not aesthetically top, nothing to comment on - mostly somebody's first work.
So as he already stated, you should take his advices as a apprecitiation, that your map is worth his time :-)
Look i am just taking it as i see it. Even if our styles and opinions differ. Never the less I appreciate it and have taken all advice on board a lot, of course. Sometimes Screenies don't do justice for the feel of the space. I have a lot of respect for you guys building crazy ######. Adjoining rooms are much cleaner and more.. Organised. So here is effectively a corridor with more action.
Much love to you all! And not nearly as much animosity as it may have come across from me either. Now to listen to some Sevendust!
Ps even though it looks complex. Skulk plays real nice and has good access to ceiling areas! :)
Trust me I am working HARD to get you guys something to play with.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If I were you, I would delete all my lights and pick a primary color, that soothing orange you have there is nice.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you tell him to <b>delete all his lights</b>, it makes it sound like the lighting is horrible (which is not, btw), even if it's not in his intention to say this, it just sounds like that.
I personally don't see anything too wrong about the lighting, myself, I agree with Insane, actually.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/RreQh.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Also it's hard to understand the exact size of the rooms from the screenshots, but some areas feel quite cramped and very lerk unfriendly. But there seem to be some bigger 'safety rooms' as well.
Either way, keep up the good work. When you have the basic layout done and want some gameplay testing done, be sure to release it for ENSL gather play. :)
Go where your heart tells you. Explore! Enrich! Experience! You have a sensitivity that most lack! Go where no man has dared to go! Bold and sure!
Your work is definitely something one has to experience. It is not that type of work where screenshots do justice to the quality of the space. I am sure you need to move around the space to understand its complex and rich order.
I have the eye for it so I see it. It is a bottom up approach. From little things big things grow!
To me this is how to understand 'criticism', listen to what people say, and if people don't understand, it is not because you are wrong, but because you haven't clearly expressed your soul intention. Use people's judgmental mind to move deeper into your force of expression.
That is the nature of esoteric, only a few will understand. Most people rely on books and their mind, others rely on experience and their heart!
I hope you like it more than I do haha.
not heaps happy with the lighting here but you get the idea. More time building, less time lighting at the minute.
Likely keep the warmer colours for alien 'half' of the map and a bit cooler over with the Marines because marines are so damn cool.
<img src="http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb103/smeered/ns/ns2_esoteric_wip0022.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
barely recognizable eh?