Started messing around with sounds, they are a bit tricky to perfect as you will hear in the vid, plus - got particles working yay, Skip to 2:10 for those :)
Some sounds too harsh/loud, others cut in and out instead of blending, So much fiddling, I manage to get some right but needs a lot of tweaking. Looks like a lot of time needs to be spent on sounds in NS2, they dont just drop in and work like in Source or more specificly I found it a breeze to do sound in TF2. I dont think Reverbs work yet, not sure.
I particularly enjoyed the FWLB sound too, the light's buzz might be a little bit too loud, but then again once people are playing and shooting and such like maybe over emphasised sounds are a good idea.
I quite enjoyed the transitions of dev textures to completed, kinda gives even more of an insight into how you develop your level. (I'm still at the suffering of stage boxes full of stuff :'().
<!--quoteo(post=1790642:date=Aug 2 2010, 08:27 AM:name=Kola)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kola @ Aug 2 2010, 08:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1790642"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Looks awesome. As long as the sounds dont kill footsteps etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You could say that using ambient sounds to mask footsteps is a tactic.
<!--quoteo(post=1790591:date=Aug 2 2010, 08:43 AM:name=Killpo1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Killpo1 @ Aug 2 2010, 08:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1790591"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just curious Barlow but give a rough estimate of how many hours you've put into that map<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would say 5-8 hours a day for upto 3 months. Time includes anything spent on, Making concept models & textures. Total Remakes of some areas (you can see changes between screenshots and videos)
<!--quoteo(post=1790593:date=Aug 2 2010, 09:49 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Aug 2 2010, 09:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1790593"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The sounds are very nice, I always found source kind of lacked a lot of the ambient sounds you'd need for a good scifi level.
Looks good, sounds good, good level.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1790642:date=Aug 2 2010, 01:27 PM:name=Kola)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kola @ Aug 2 2010, 01:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1790642"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Looks awesome. As long as the sounds dont kill footsteps etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I belive sound is sometimes overlooked in multiplayer when it comes to atmospherics, They can become part of your gameplay helping you move around undetected cause something loud in a certain area drowns out your movement so you can sneek though noisy areas, I think players rely heavily on sound telling them if something is near or something is creeping up on them more than they rely on sight. I dont want to drown everywhere with sound, I am going to be selective on areas that mask movement to bring players a more stelthy attacks & surprises.
If you notice now in NS, MC is used a lot first for Silence Trait (why??? SC - Cloakin is better starter chamber !??) and marines have noisy foot steps that made it very hard to stealth anywhere when an alien can hear you moving around in the next corridoor/room. I want to bring a map to you all that gives you an option other than RUN & GUN. If you can hide from a skulk and let it past so you can get to a key target undetected then it brings in some epic gameplay when you get there and you get a phasegate up. This is in NS1 where I hate sensory chambers Sent of Fear, Motion Tracking is okay if you can cloak and Hide from it but I think all these tracking abilities ruins an element of gameplay when they are used. Nobody likes it when people use wall hacks we all know it ruins the game when you are tring to sneak around and those traits/upgrades do the same thing.. <b>I hope in NS2, tracking is not so much as a big burden on the Art of Stealth as they are in NS1.</b>
<!--quoteo(post=1790603:date=Aug 2 2010, 10:56 AM:name=Delphic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Delphic @ Aug 2 2010, 10:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1790603"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I particularly enjoyed the FWLB sound too, the light's buzz might be a little bit too loud, but then again once people are playing and shooting and such like maybe over emphasised sounds are a good idea.
I quite enjoyed the transitions of dev textures to completed, kinda gives even more of an insight into how you develop your level. (I'm still at the suffering of stage boxes full of stuff :'().<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They are too loud, they are only ment to be a gental buz. Sound needs refining in a big way on my intial test, A lot of effort has been put in to sound in NS2, its one hell of a setup with plenty of fine tune options available. They have a great playback system where the loops are not actual loops but are dynamicly always playing different sound variations and those variations each time they are belnded in come with a different pitch, so its a nice constant change unlike a constant Half-Life sound that gets annoying after a bit.
I never greybox anything :P, I pasted in The Communications Tower and slapped up those grey walls so I could get in there :) First time I ever done that.
<!--quoteo(post=1790652:date=Aug 2 2010, 03:04 PM:name=SgtBarlow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SgtBarlow @ Aug 2 2010, 03:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1790652"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They have a great playback system where the loops are not actual loops but are dynamicly always playing different sound variations and those variations each time they are belnded in come with a different pitch, so its a nice constant change unlike a constant Half-Life sound that gets annoying after a bit.
I never greybox anything :P, I pasted in The Communications Tower and slapped up those grey walls so I could get in there :) First time I ever done that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow, that sounds [pun!] awesome, is that's what's happening in the tram repair room, or is that a combination of variations with a long already varying sound? I presume these are sounds included in NS2... so I can probably go find that out myself.
Hmmm, perhaps the fact I always greybox to check travel times vague layout is the source of the box with stuff in problem. Maybe it's time to try the pretty as feasible first-pass method.
The tram room has one sound emitter in it yes, put it in on its own to hear the mix in game, yes (99%) of the sounds that are currently indexed in the library are there now.
The grey box was put in after I put the lift in place and the end of that tunnel. What i will do next is delete all that grey stuff and build from air so it does not influence the rooms shape though i did draw the grey planes in more or less the path layout I had in mind previously but i certainly dont want my props/geomerty to follow its blocky shape.
I agree on the atmospheric sound level. But artistic stuff shouldn't compromise the gameplay. Which it seems anywho you wont.
If you look at Counter-Strike sound has a massive role. I've never played a match on high level (or for that matter when I played medi/high skill) without pressing k which was keybound to nosound. If there's one of these in NS2 it will become the same and I will simply kill every sound on the map each time I spawn (if it's looping and restart as of that I'll most likely bind it to a sequence with walking). NS2 does look alot like the old HL engine in terms of how you can control it.
It's the same with sprites. If people find a way to see better through that nice looking steam cloud you have, then they will do it. Which will compromise the gameplay for the others.
It's still hard to say though as the actual limitations and possibilities in the NS2 engine is not yet known.
reverbs are working, so put them into ur map, they are subtle at the moment, , also a hint for ambient sound levels use "generic room hum" at full volume as a refrence most sounds will need to be turned down to match its level.
also try too avoid using the same sound in 2 spheres that overlap. most sounds have a max playback thats set to 1 so they will cut in and out harshly if they are too close to eachother.
Cheers for all the feedback, makes it all worth while.
Thanks Simon, I could not tell if they where working, I was looking for a realy distinctive echo for the caves I hope I can get in a future patch. I thought that was the case with the cut out thanks for the definate clarification.
I had to record the sound through "What U Hear" so everything was jacked up x2/3 to get audio in video, I pooped my self when I fired the rifel while doing that as its the loudest sound source.
use "big hallway" for caves, its the biggest sounding reverb in there, i made it for the tram tunnels but it will sound nice in any room u want a long reverb in, i use it in alien spawn in tram for example.
good luck with this map
and dont be afraid to layer a bunch of sounds in a room, the loops are all different lengths so if there are a few playing the loop points are harder to hear, it will help the sound scape feel more natural.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Reverb is nice, as long as it doesn't have the nice GoldSrc bug in it where it will continue to reverb everything in the map once you've entered and even left the reverb area <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/tongue.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Dark Hallways with lots of Hiding Places for skulks, this leads to a water pumping station that will have a Res Node then splits off to the Caves and 5th tech area, "Smelting". Lots of pipes run through this area as lots of water is used for cooling in the smelting plant and water blasting at a yet to come drilling site. This corridoor is designed to be a deathtrap for marines, Skulk Haven! <div align='center'> <a href="http://www.unitedworlds.co.uk/users/2/images/levels/1272019001/1281145298_NRM.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.unitedworlds.co.uk/users/2/images/levels/1272019001/1281145298_BLOG.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
Yeah a bit more cover in the corridor is a good idea, else after ambushing one marine you're going to get raped by his buddies before you can hide again. :(
Its the angle of the shots, there a spaces all over amongst the big pipes in the walls on the left and celing that also has vents and chainlink meshes in the celing for skulks/lerks to jump from/perch. Holding off for a while till more props are made.
<!--quoteo(post=1798200:date=Sep 11 2010, 04:01 AM:name=Pstrangler)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pstrangler @ Sep 11 2010, 04:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1798200"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the way you frame your pics....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
SgtBarlow your map looks damn good. When you have skulk-skills like mine, corridors like that 'skulk-heaven' one are a godsend for getting a few kills! Let me know if you want it featured on the NS2HD channel.
Comments
+1
ns2_barlow
i've been calling it that since it started and you can totally get away with that name... at least it isn't ns2_frank or ns2_larry
<div align='center'><center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cFUOY3FnB-8"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cFUOY3FnB-8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center></div>
Some sounds too harsh/loud, others cut in and out instead of blending, So much fiddling, I manage to get some right but needs a lot of tweaking.
Looks like a lot of time needs to be spent on sounds in NS2, they dont just drop in and work like in Source or more specificly I found it a breeze to do sound in TF2.
I dont think Reverbs work yet, not sure.
Looks good, sounds good, good level.
I quite enjoyed the transitions of dev textures to completed, kinda gives even more of an insight into how you develop your level. (I'm still at the suffering of stage boxes full of stuff :'().
You could say that using ambient sounds to mask footsteps is a tactic.
I would say 5-8 hours a day for upto 3 months.
Time includes anything spent on, Making concept models & textures. Total Remakes of some areas (you can see changes between screenshots and videos)
<!--quoteo(post=1790593:date=Aug 2 2010, 09:49 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Aug 2 2010, 09:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1790593"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The sounds are very nice, I always found source kind of lacked a lot of the ambient sounds you'd need for a good scifi level.
Looks good, sounds good, good level.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1790642:date=Aug 2 2010, 01:27 PM:name=Kola)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kola @ Aug 2 2010, 01:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1790642"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Looks awesome. As long as the sounds dont kill footsteps etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I belive sound is sometimes overlooked in multiplayer when it comes to atmospherics, They can become part of your gameplay helping you move around undetected cause something loud in a certain area drowns out your movement so you can sneek though noisy areas, I think players rely heavily on sound telling them if something is near or something is creeping up on them more than they rely on sight.
I dont want to drown everywhere with sound, I am going to be selective on areas that mask movement to bring players a more stelthy attacks & surprises.
If you notice now in NS, MC is used a lot first for Silence Trait (why??? SC - Cloakin is better starter chamber !??) and marines have noisy foot steps that made it very hard to stealth anywhere when an alien can hear you moving around in the next corridoor/room.
I want to bring a map to you all that gives you an option other than RUN & GUN.
If you can hide from a skulk and let it past so you can get to a key target undetected then it brings in some epic gameplay when you get there and you get a phasegate up. This is in NS1 where I hate sensory chambers Sent of Fear, Motion Tracking is okay if you can cloak and Hide from it but I think all these tracking abilities ruins an element of gameplay when they are used.
Nobody likes it when people use wall hacks we all know it ruins the game when you are tring to sneak around and those traits/upgrades do the same thing..
<b>I hope in NS2, tracking is not so much as a big burden on the Art of Stealth as they are in NS1.</b>
<!--quoteo(post=1790603:date=Aug 2 2010, 10:56 AM:name=Delphic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Delphic @ Aug 2 2010, 10:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1790603"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I particularly enjoyed the FWLB sound too, the light's buzz might be a little bit too loud, but then again once people are playing and shooting and such like maybe over emphasised sounds are a good idea.
I quite enjoyed the transitions of dev textures to completed, kinda gives even more of an insight into how you develop your level. (I'm still at the suffering of stage boxes full of stuff :'().<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They are too loud, they are only ment to be a gental buz. Sound needs refining in a big way on my intial test, A lot of effort has been put in to sound in NS2, its one hell of a setup with plenty of fine tune options available. They have a great playback system where the loops are not actual loops but are dynamicly always playing different sound variations and those variations each time they are belnded in come with a different pitch, so its a nice constant change unlike a constant Half-Life sound that gets annoying after a bit.
I never greybox anything :P, I pasted in The Communications Tower and slapped up those grey walls so I could get in there :) First time I ever done that.
I never greybox anything :P, I pasted in The Communications Tower and slapped up those grey walls so I could get in there :) First time I ever done that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow, that sounds [pun!] awesome, is that's what's happening in the tram repair room, or is that a combination of variations with a long already varying sound? I presume these are sounds included in NS2... so I can probably go find that out myself.
Hmmm, perhaps the fact I always greybox to check travel times vague layout is the source of the box with stuff in problem. Maybe it's time to try the pretty as feasible first-pass method.
The grey box was put in after I put the lift in place and the end of that tunnel. What i will do next is delete all that grey stuff and build from air so it does not influence the rooms shape though i did draw the grey planes in more or less the path layout I had in mind previously but i certainly dont want my props/geomerty to follow its blocky shape.
If you look at Counter-Strike sound has a massive role. I've never played a match on high level (or for that matter when I played medi/high skill) without pressing k which was keybound to nosound. If there's one of these in NS2 it will become the same and I will simply kill every sound on the map each time I spawn (if it's looping and restart as of that I'll most likely bind it to a sequence with walking). NS2 does look alot like the old HL engine in terms of how you can control it.
It's the same with sprites. If people find a way to see better through that nice looking steam cloud you have, then they will do it. Which will compromise the gameplay for the others.
It's still hard to say though as the actual limitations and possibilities in the NS2 engine is not yet known.
None the less, it does make your map awesome :)
that's juste splendid !
this is bluffing to see the mastery of the editor of some person :o
nice particule it really adds something to the room.
good continuation has you !
also a hint for ambient sound levels use "generic room hum" at full volume as a refrence most sounds will need to be turned down to match its level.
also try too avoid using the same sound in 2 spheres that overlap. most sounds have a max playback thats set to 1 so they will cut in and out harshly if they are too close to eachother.
nice work on that map
Thanks Simon, I could not tell if they where working, I was looking for a realy distinctive echo for the caves I hope I can get in a future patch.
I thought that was the case with the cut out thanks for the definate clarification.
I had to record the sound through "What U Hear" so everything was jacked up x2/3 to get audio in video, I pooped my self when I fired the rifel while doing that as its the loudest sound source.
good luck with this map
and dont be afraid to layer a bunch of sounds in a room, the loops are all different lengths so if there are a few playing the loop points are harder to hear, it will help the sound scape feel more natural.
To the Max mobile!
Dark Hallways with lots of Hiding Places for skulks, this leads to a water pumping station that will have a Res Node then splits off to the Caves and 5th tech area, "Smelting".
Lots of pipes run through this area as lots of water is used for cooling in the smelting plant and water blasting at a yet to come drilling site.
This corridoor is designed to be a deathtrap for marines, Skulk Haven!
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I dont understand. :)