a marine spaceship carrying 500 marines was sent to reinforce marines at section 21 ( a very resursfull and strategic base located in another solar system ). on the way the marine spaceship went stright into the kharas trap, a hole field of <a href="http://www.naturalselection2.com/storage/concept_generator_room.jpg" target="_blank">nemphs</a> ( is that what they are called? ) resulting in serious damage to the ship, that forced them to abandon ship thru transport pods. few pods made it out from the nemph field and managed to land on the nearest planet where a deserted marine base was located. the survivors had to report what happend to them and warn other spaceships that might follow them, so they go on a search mission inside the facility to find a way to contact HQ, while inside they discovered that they are not alone.
hope this was good and sorry for my bad english, its not my first language. feel free to edit / add to it.
i think you help to make this game more popular cause people/player want to SEE reults, something they can image how good this game will be. like your map ingame videos.
<!--quoteo(post=1768730:date=Apr 26 2010, 08:44 AM:name=SgtBarlow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SgtBarlow @ Apr 26 2010, 08:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1768730"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thats cool, That instantly given me an idea to build a communications tower at the opposite end of the level from where marines can start.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> funny though, I got the same idea after done posting it :D that would be a really neat section of the map.
I like the balance of object to light ration, in heavy lit areas, there are plenty of objects and areas to hide for a skulk, while in dark areas, its plain and simple darkness to hide in.
Progress update. Still building the comms tower, well the structural inner base of one. Plenty of support beams in the middle with cables and power lines running up the central columb and terminals and more wires around the place, some pipes for hydrolic fluid, - This is another tech point. Thats urrr, 3 (nearly 3) of 5 techpoints done. I think I am going for a total of 5 so there is one in the middle to fight over, that one is going to be as epic looking as I can possibly make it. Going to be more the recriational and cafateria are in the middle of the map.
So anyway, I done a <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=108361" target="_blank">Mendasp</a> Timelapse 3 part video thing: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=5F2F371EE4BBB073" target="_blank">Click for Youtube Playlist</a>
I know :( All 4 clips was supposed to be one but the damn things would not merge :( Kept saying vids are different res/bitrate etc. Summut up with that CamStudio the way it writes the files.
Damn it, You know, thats what I was going to try, Windows Movie Maker but the thing has disapeard on me :(, bugger knows where its gone but it aint installed anymore (must beable to download it again from microsoft?)..., I had to download DiVX Pro Trial and convert them using that but could still not merge them afters... It just plain weard..
It doesn't come included with Vista/7. Right now there's Windows Live Movie Maker, which is a little different from the XP one, but you can download the old one working for Vista/7 <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=D6BA5972-328E-4DF7-8F9D-068FC0F80CFC&displaylang=en" target="_blank">here</a>.
<!--quoteo(post=1768972:date=Apr 28 2010, 07:23 PM:name=SgtBarlow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SgtBarlow @ Apr 28 2010, 07:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1768972"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think I am going for a total of 5 so there is one in the middle to fight over, that one is going to be as epic looking as I can possibly make it. Going to be more the recriational and cafateria are in the middle of the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It has to have a simulation terminal showing off the startmenu of NS.
<!--quoteo(post=1769042:date=Apr 29 2010, 01:51 AM:name=slayer20)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (slayer20 @ Apr 29 2010, 01:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1769042"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->SgtBarlow, how long have you been level designing and where did you learn to make architecture like that?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gosh, umm. I started making maps in 2005 on Natural Selection and probably over time have clocked up only 6-8 Months total mapping time. First ever map I released was co_reactor before 2.0 when you could make the entities force a Marine v Marine. Very short life, it broke when 2.0 came out and so I changed it to normal Combat then released it after months of testing (Was never ment to be released, was in a community with its own server and we wanted a simple MVM map). <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=106819" target="_blank">Updated it in 2009</a>. Along with <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=107034" target="_blank">MVM Version</a> again thx to a mod.
2nd ever map released was <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=92016" target="_blank">ns_siege_generator</a> The MAX_PLANES_EXCEEDED map :)
Other attempts: <a href="http://www.team-kb.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=139" target="_blank">ns_nano</a> - Was too detailed :( <a href="http://www.team-kb.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=160" target="_blank">ns_lunarstation</a> - NS2 Spark Editor Came out so that died and NS by now is low on players :/
I pottered around in the Source Hammer Editor with a couple of things. Only other game I started making a map for was TF2 - <a href="http://www.team-kb.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=154&p=1745#p1745" target="_blank">cti_pl_therock</a> , A version of the the_rock2 still working on it.
I have no education in level design or art and never did it at high school. I have never planned anything out, I dont do concepts or layouts - I dont belive in them as I dont belive you can pre-caculate how something is going to work or flow you just goto do it and adapt it as you go along, things always deviate from an original plan so why spend time planning something like this, planning does not work for everything, I dont think is works for levels, Instead I use rules to maintain playability, the rules differ for each game. The way I work seems to somehow be one baffling way of creating a level to a lot of people, specialy more so my mates who have been to Uni on the subject so I will best as I can put into context what I do.
<b>Design by Behaviour</b> I do a lot of gaming and I just for whatever reason have always observed peoples behaviour in different places. - What they do - How they react to scenes & objects - Sorts of things they hide behind and move round things.
I belive that the shape, size and look of a scene can change how a player behaves and moves in that area thus effecting the layout, therefore in my world the layout is always fluid and so paths in and out of a room as well its direction of flow for me usualy come later and are positioned depending on the shape that takes form. As always you need more than one way in and out for the element of surprise and the sake of progress.
<b>Without Restriction</b> You can always build a room and rotate it when its done to fit the rest of your level, not restricting your self in any way is important, I find a way of attaching to the rest of the level afterwards rather than start with an attachment so i am free to start in the middle with the main feature or purpose of the room so its shape takes form from that as apposed to the door where your creativity is limited.
<b>Expansion not Layout</b> I think of a good pattern, something that will create conflict. In this case for the nature of this game I went for the 5 on a dice, each team has a place to start, a place to expand to and a place to fight over for an upperhand. use this as your key to your levels playability as apposed to what you think is a good layout, let the layout expand, be formed by the rooms you create, the natural spaces and just keep distance in check from one source to another. The 5 main points will always remain as is but the connections between them start off as simple, playtesting grows their complexity, numbers and accessability. <!--coloro:#C0C0C0--><span style="color:#C0C0C0"><!--/coloro--><i>(This is why you see no layout for my map and mostly talk/media about tech rooms - the maps I made took 2 months testing each to balance out)</i><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Let the objects and geometry determin the length of a corridoor or the size of a room then break up distance with a change of direction or objects for cover. Invent small strorage areas and tiny rooms that force a corridoor to go round them as well as stop a corridoor beeing just a boring corridoor. You dont have to be able to go in them or always see in them via a window. They help create a recess to hide in or go for cover too as well as make things look more interesing and break up repetivness.
<b>Architecture</b> Like you all normaly do anyway, think about where you are, the enviroment, Establish a scene based on the assets you have to build it, Then invent a purpose for the facility/base first so structural ideas come more easily.
<i>Most of what I build is based around logic, Things that need supports, columbs, natural spaces as well as rooms having purpose and fufilling real life needs between an entrance and a main point of interest or other points, then there are other needs like what does the place need to function to do what it does - <u>Make a list</u>, Thinking about that helps you create purpousful rooms. The more you have the better, the less generic corridoors you use as they are the hardest to build and can be boring if there is too many.</i>
The room in the timelapse video is based on the Idea of a communications tower, This tower has an imaginary huge rotating radar/dish. - First this made me place a columb (big pipe place holder) that would be a drive shaft for the radars rotation. - The room needs space for equipment (computers, hydrolic fluids, pipes, cables, power) near the base for the mechanics and operation so its going to be big. - The the tower on top is not as wide as the base structure so supports need to be in place in the middle and lots of supporting columbs (logic) to hold it up. - Upper Access required for maintanace so a spiral walkway was wrapped around the drive shaft. So as you will read the architecture in that room is formed by logic (beams/columbs are needed to hold up a heavy object/structure as well as needs - the need for access). Arches make good supports as well as look nice along with Skylights, tall ceilings.
I try to invent shapes, i create a shape then turn it into something, in some places like I did for cargo transfare video, the ceiling - simple X's with light pouring through, thats how that rooms started with one X then the rest just happens. Those x's could have easily been part of walls. Make a Y shape then start building around it, You might extrude it and make it part of a wall or you might make it into a columb and that might make you build something ontop like a fake room or be it a central support in a huge corridoor, it can evolve into anything.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showuser=16271" target="_blank">Kouji_San</a> does good at making shapes.
Its intressting to see somebody that has the same mapping style I got, especially "Design by Behaviour" and create as you go along, really gives you allot of freedom. good writeup man, you just wrote the next "friday update" :D
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited April 2010
I'll shape up a good <a href="http://www.goodnewsisnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/800px-chocolate_chip_cookies.jpg" target="_blank">piece of chocolate chip cookies</a> for ya Barlow!
Also your post brings back memories of the good old goldSRC days, not to long ago IRL. In gaming terms, it's like going back to the roman empire :P
Atm in spark, shaping things gets me into trouble more then I care for though... I start shaping stuff up to nice detailed brushwork, then texture it... Only to find myself having to retexture loads of faces, especially when I want to use a particular piece of brushwork (facework?) in another place. Simply because the texture tool is not yet up to oldschool Hammer standards... "Treat as one" and "align to world" are sincerely missed and texture locking is not working all the time :(
Ah well, at least I'm having some fun in trying to combine multiple props to make it look like custom props :P
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
Yeah, Spark is a ###### it its current state when it comes to "facework". I also miss a grouping feature to make it easier to handle those parts. Putting it into seperate layers doesn't really help, when you can't select all parts of a layer by dblclicking on it or something.
<!--fonto:Comic Sans MS--><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS"><!--/fonto-->This is a nice looking map you are making. Just by looking at it you can see the quality of it. I am quite new to mapping myself. Started working on a map for Zombie Panic Source, but got caught up in life and eventually grew tired of ZPS so I stopped working on the map. I've been eager to make another map though for a mod/game I know I will play a lot. NS2 is definitely one I will be playing a lot. I decided to start working on a map of my own. Just been at it for a couple days though. One thing I really need to work on is gradual corners and not right angled ones. I don't know how you guys do it either, but everything just fits so nicely in your areas. Perhaps I am going about map making backwards. I usually go about this just off the top of my mind as well. I just make a area, a box for example, then texture it and add in props. Maybe it's props first then build around that? It's just funny though cause my hopes of making a good map go right out the window after looking at your map. I definitely have the time and patience to make a well rounded map but there's a lot more for me to learn.<!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc-->
Making a box and filling it can be the bad way around because you have already encased your self and restricted your creativity, you are bound to the flow of that room .. A Box the very hated thing of all time. Think of a function for the room, from that function invent a feature, then build up around that feature, I also suggest you try placing a prop first and build out from it as apposed to a plane.
I will be posting a very short vid of "The Comms Tower", this upcoming room started from the simple pipe in the middle of it.
Taken a lot longer but its finally here, <b>The Comms Tower</b>, So here is a tiny video of poor size "again" (stupid @~>$%!).. As well as some <a href="http://ns2.unitedworlds.co.uk/home.php?mode=vl&id=1" target="_blank">screenshots</a> :)
shaping up really good man you still amaze me with every update on your map, keep up the nice work and I really hope this one turns into an official map when its done. save me a spot when you wanna test it ;)
Comments
on the way the marine spaceship went stright into the kharas trap, a hole field of <a href="http://www.naturalselection2.com/storage/concept_generator_room.jpg" target="_blank">nemphs</a> ( is that what they are called? ) resulting in serious damage to the ship, that forced them to abandon ship thru transport pods.
few pods made it out from the nemph field and managed to land on the nearest planet where a deserted marine base was located.
the survivors had to report what happend to them and warn other spaceships that might follow them, so they go on a search mission inside the facility to find a way to contact HQ, while inside they discovered that they are not alone.
hope this was good and sorry for my bad english, its not my first language. feel free to edit / add to it.
i think you help to make this game more popular cause people/player want to SEE reults, something they can image how good this game will be. like your map ingame videos.
:) nice barlow, go on.
funny though, I got the same idea after done posting it :D
that would be a really neat section of the map.
Still building the comms tower, well the structural inner base of one. Plenty of support beams in the middle with cables and power lines running up the central columb and terminals and more wires around the place, some pipes for hydrolic fluid, - This is another tech point.
Thats urrr, 3 (nearly 3) of 5 techpoints done.
I think I am going for a total of 5 so there is one in the middle to fight over, that one is going to be as epic looking as I can possibly make it. Going to be more the recriational and cafateria are in the middle of the map.
So anyway, I done a <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=108361" target="_blank">Mendasp</a> Timelapse 3 part video thing: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=5F2F371EE4BBB073" target="_blank">Click for Youtube Playlist</a>
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YXzLpJh10Ew"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YXzLpJh10Ew" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
It just plain weard..
It has to have a simulation terminal showing off the startmenu of NS.
Gosh, umm. I started making maps in 2005 on Natural Selection and probably over time have clocked up only 6-8 Months total mapping time.
First ever map I released was co_reactor before 2.0 when you could make the entities force a Marine v Marine.
Very short life, it broke when 2.0 came out and so I changed it to normal Combat then released it after months of testing (Was never ment to be released, was in a community with its own server and we wanted a simple MVM map). <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=106819" target="_blank">Updated it in 2009</a>. Along with <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=107034" target="_blank">MVM Version</a> again thx to a mod.
2nd ever map released was <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=92016" target="_blank">ns_siege_generator</a> The MAX_PLANES_EXCEEDED map :)
Other attempts:
<a href="http://www.team-kb.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=139" target="_blank">ns_nano</a> - Was too detailed :(
<a href="http://www.team-kb.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=160" target="_blank">ns_lunarstation</a> - NS2 Spark Editor Came out so that died and NS by now is low on players :/
I pottered around in the Source Hammer Editor with a couple of things.
Only other game I started making a map for was TF2 - <a href="http://www.team-kb.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=154&p=1745#p1745" target="_blank">cti_pl_therock</a> , A version of the the_rock2 still working on it.
I have no education in level design or art and never did it at high school.
I have never planned anything out, I dont do concepts or layouts - I dont belive in them as I dont belive you can pre-caculate how something is going to work or flow you just goto do it and adapt it as you go along, things always deviate from an original plan so why spend time planning something like this, planning does not work for everything, I dont think is works for levels, Instead I use rules to maintain playability, the rules differ for each game.
The way I work seems to somehow be one baffling way of creating a level to a lot of people, specialy more so my mates who have been to Uni on the subject so I will best as I can put into context what I do.
<b>Design by Behaviour</b>
I do a lot of gaming and I just for whatever reason have always observed peoples behaviour in different places.
- What they do
- How they react to scenes & objects
- Sorts of things they hide behind and move round things.
I belive that the shape, size and look of a scene can change how a player behaves and moves in that area thus effecting the layout, therefore in my world the layout is always fluid and so paths in and out of a room as well its direction of flow for me usualy come later and are positioned depending on the shape that takes form.
As always you need more than one way in and out for the element of surprise and the sake of progress.
<b>Without Restriction</b>
You can always build a room and rotate it when its done to fit the rest of your level, not restricting your self in any way is important, I find a way of attaching to the rest of the level afterwards rather than start with an attachment so i am free to start in the middle with the main feature or purpose of the room so its shape takes form from that as apposed to the door where your creativity is limited.
<b>Expansion not Layout</b>
I think of a good pattern, something that will create conflict. In this case for the nature of this game I went for the 5 on a dice, each team has a place to start, a place to expand to and a place to fight over for an upperhand. use this as your key to your levels playability as apposed to what you think is a good layout, let the layout expand, be formed by the rooms you create, the natural spaces and just keep distance in check from one source to another.
The 5 main points will always remain as is but the connections between them start off as simple, playtesting grows their complexity, numbers and accessability.
<!--coloro:#C0C0C0--><span style="color:#C0C0C0"><!--/coloro--><i>(This is why you see no layout for my map and mostly talk/media about tech rooms - the maps I made took 2 months testing each to balance out)</i><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Let the objects and geometry determin the length of a corridoor or the size of a room then break up distance with a change of direction or objects for cover.
Invent small strorage areas and tiny rooms that force a corridoor to go round them as well as stop a corridoor beeing just a boring corridoor. You dont have to be able to go in them or always see in them via a window. They help create a recess to hide in or go for cover too as well as make things look more interesing and break up repetivness.
<b>Architecture</b>
Like you all normaly do anyway, think about where you are, the enviroment, Establish a scene based on the assets you have to build it, Then invent a purpose for the facility/base first so structural ideas come more easily.
<i>Most of what I build is based around logic, Things that need supports, columbs, natural spaces as well as rooms having purpose and fufilling real life needs between an entrance and a main point of interest or other points, then there are other needs like what does the place need to function to do what it does - <u>Make a list</u>, Thinking about that helps you create purpousful rooms. The more you have the better, the less generic corridoors you use as they are the hardest to build and can be boring if there is too many.</i>
The room in the timelapse video is based on the Idea of a communications tower, This tower has an imaginary huge rotating radar/dish.
- First this made me place a columb (big pipe place holder) that would be a drive shaft for the radars rotation.
- The room needs space for equipment (computers, hydrolic fluids, pipes, cables, power) near the base for the mechanics and operation so its going to be big.
- The the tower on top is not as wide as the base structure so supports need to be in place in the middle and lots of supporting columbs (logic) to hold it up.
- Upper Access required for maintanace so a spiral walkway was wrapped around the drive shaft.
So as you will read the architecture in that room is formed by logic (beams/columbs are needed to hold up a heavy object/structure as well as needs - the need for access).
Arches make good supports as well as look nice along with Skylights, tall ceilings.
I try to invent shapes, i create a shape then turn it into something, in some places like I did for cargo transfare video, the ceiling - simple X's with light pouring through, thats how that rooms started with one X then the rest just happens. Those x's could have easily been part of walls.
Make a Y shape then start building around it, You might extrude it and make it part of a wall or you might make it into a columb and that might make you build something ontop like a fake room or be it a central support in a huge corridoor, it can evolve into anything.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showuser=16271" target="_blank">Kouji_San</a> does good at making shapes.
good writeup man, you just wrote the next "friday update" :D
Also your post brings back memories of the good old goldSRC days, not to long ago IRL. In gaming terms, it's like going back to the roman empire :P
Atm in spark, shaping things gets me into trouble more then I care for though... I start shaping stuff up to nice detailed brushwork, then texture it... Only to find myself having to retexture loads of faces, especially when I want to use a particular piece of brushwork (facework?) in another place. Simply because the texture tool is not yet up to oldschool Hammer standards... "Treat as one" and "align to world" are sincerely missed and texture locking is not working all the time :(
Ah well, at least I'm having some fun in trying to combine multiple props to make it look like custom props :P
Perhaps NS2_PHOBOS? As well as being the Greek god of fear, Phobos also happens to be one of Mars' moons.
The other moon is Deimos, the god of panic.
I had a similar idea for a map... but it didn't get very far :(. For what it's worth, that 'map' was called NS_TITAN. Use it if you like it.
I like moons :P.
Number Two: Treat as one best tool ever.
Number Three: Spoilt for choice on names :O
Will have to gather up all the suggestions nearer the time of compleation and go through them all.
Thank you everyone!
Making a box and filling it can be the bad way around because you have already encased your self and restricted your creativity, you are bound to the flow of that room .. A Box the very hated thing of all time.
Think of a function for the room, from that function invent a feature, then build up around that feature, I also suggest you try placing a prop first and build out from it as apposed to a plane.
I will be posting a very short vid of "The Comms Tower", this upcoming room started from the simple pipe in the middle of it.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/SgtBarlow" target="_blank"><img src="http://ns2.unitedworlds.co.uk/images/youtube_b_120.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
Taken a lot longer but its finally here, <b>The Comms Tower</b>, So here is a tiny video of poor size "again" (stupid @~>$%!)..
As well as some <a href="http://ns2.unitedworlds.co.uk/home.php?mode=vl&id=1" target="_blank">screenshots</a> :)
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ca83R4ObuSs"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ca83R4ObuSs" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
<img src="http://ns2.unitedworlds.co.uk/users/2/images/levels/1272019001/1272674539_NRM.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://ns2.unitedworlds.co.uk/users/2/images/levels/1272019001/1272675025_NRM.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://ns2.unitedworlds.co.uk/users/2/images/levels/1272019001/1272675077_NRM.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://ns2.unitedworlds.co.uk/users/2/images/levels/1272019001/1272675130_NRM.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://ns2.unitedworlds.co.uk/users/2/images/levels/1272019001/1272706314_NRM.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://ns2.unitedworlds.co.uk/users/2/images/levels/1272019001/1272706344_NRM.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://ns2.unitedworlds.co.uk/users/2/images/levels/1272019001/1272706424_NRM.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
save me a spot when you wanna test it ;)