Natural Selection 2 News Update - First Peek At the New Frontiersman

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Comments

  • duxdux Tea Lady Join Date: 2003-12-14 Member: 24371Members, NS2 Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=1729775:date=Sep 30 2009, 05:52 AM:name=Unsichtbar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Unsichtbar @ Sep 30 2009, 05:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729775"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I belive the screens are edited<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Incorrect.
  • EpiclandingEpiclanding Join Date: 2009-09-30 Member: 68913Members
    I like the new designs of the Frontiersman, i would have liked a gas mask or something but still looks great, im very impressed with the graphics of the game especially coming from a small team of people that started off as modders.
  • remiremi remedy [blu.knight] Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
    <!--quoteo(post=1729784:date=Sep 30 2009, 04:07 AM:name=RobB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobB @ Sep 30 2009, 04:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729784"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe black is not black because there is a colored lightsource offscreen?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Or because of the ambient light intended to simulate the light reflecting off of every surface which colors everything a little bit to ensure there is no flat black in a scene because it looks crappy/unnatural if there is?
  • InsaneInsane Anomaly Join Date: 2002-05-13 Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=1729942:date=Oct 1 2009, 06:22 AM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Psyke @ Oct 1 2009, 06:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729942"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Or because of the ambient light intended to simulate the light reflecting off of every surface which colors everything a little bit to ensure there is no flat black in a scene because it looks crappy/unnatural if there is?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I'm not 100% certain but I think that some of that lack of true black is down to atmospheric effects, like the sun rays shining through the windows in the lighting video.
  • neXorneXor Join Date: 2008-06-07 Member: 64406Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Insane+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Insane)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...atmospheric effects...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Just think of some fog or smoke crawling around the pic.
    Okay, if it really is fog or smoke, it make the image slightly look like it is brightened...

    But all I have to tell is, that you guys really rock, and I'm sure, you will have the most advanced Engine when releasing.
    *all thumps I got up*
  • CrispixCrispix Join Date: 2007-01-10 Member: 59543Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1729578:date=Sep 29 2009, 01:43 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (locallyunscene @ Sep 29 2009, 01:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729578"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Flayra specifically said on the first page of this thread that they were in-game. Over-all your post is right, just adding that it's even more true than you thought.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Technically the game is running on the engine, so either or is correct. The engine is rendering the scene while the game is being executed.

    /high five.
  • remiremi remedy [blu.knight] Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
    <!--quoteo(post=1729955:date=Oct 1 2009, 01:45 AM:name=Insane)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Insane @ Oct 1 2009, 01:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729955"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not 100% certain but I think that some of that lack of true black is down to atmospheric effects, like the sun rays shining through the windows in the lighting video.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This may be true, but ambient light is a different thing.
    In a real world scenario, the light coming in through the windows would hit a surface, bounce off, hit another, and repeat. It would happen so many times that it would essentially be coming from all directions. It would also be EXTREMELY costly to try to actually simulate. As a result, graphic programmers have come up with this concept of ambient light as a shortcut for getting images to look a little bit more real.

    It is an aspect of Phong shading, which is I believe the most used shading technique in graphics: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phong_shading" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phong_shading</a>

    I believe the NS2 engine also uses "ambient occlusion", which I think is supposed to be a crude approximation of the above phenomenon. I'm not really sure how it works as it hasn't been covered in my graphics classes, but it looks better than just normal ambient lighting, but its still not photo-realistic: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambient_occlusion" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambient_occlusion</a>
  • InsaneInsane Anomaly Join Date: 2002-05-13 Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
    I know what ambient light is, I was merely suggesting that the engine's atmospheric effects were the cause of the lack of true black.
  • NeoSniperNeoSniper Join Date: 2005-06-02 Member: 52976Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1729546:date=Sep 29 2009, 03:07 AM:name=specialbuddy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (specialbuddy @ Sep 29 2009, 03:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729546"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...I want to see what the frontiersman looks like in the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->The pictures show what he looks like "in the game"

    <!--quoteo(post=1729476:date=Sep 28 2009, 07:12 PM:name=specialbuddy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (specialbuddy @ Sep 28 2009, 07:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729476"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's just a picture. I want in game video of the frontiersman running around. That's just artwork.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->The renders are NOT "just artwork".

    <!--quoteo(post=1729546:date=Sep 29 2009, 03:07 AM:name=specialbuddy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (specialbuddy @ Sep 29 2009, 03:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729546"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm excited about the game. Again, I've looked at the images. I want a video that's all I'm saying.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I figured that VIDEO is what you meant since I read the 1st post quoted here, but you need to be more clear when you post. Saves everyone time.
  • HamletHamlet Join Date: 2008-08-17 Member: 64837Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited October 2009
    Here is a great suggestion how the marine helmet can be enhanced:
    <img src="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/12/89670650_b701ccf261.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
    <img src="http://chapters.marssociety.org/winnipeg/helmets/saabs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Make the player's name appear on it!

    Info: This is the first-best picture I could find about a similar-themed, yet set in a not so technologically advanced TV series called <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_above_and_beyond" target="_blank">Space - Above and Beyond</a>.
  • blackpiranhablackpiranha Germany Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14375Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1730211:date=Oct 2 2009, 10:41 AM:name=Hamlet)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hamlet @ Oct 2 2009, 10:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1730211"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Make the player's name appear on it!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    and if I name myself "BigSloppyDonkey****" ? and what about clantags?
  • HamletHamlet Join Date: 2008-08-17 Member: 64837Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited October 2009
    My reaction to that would be:
    "Oh, hello Big ###### dork 666! Welcome to the game!"

    [1min later]

    "Big ###### dork 666 and [sensible Playername] - you two build the Restower in the Hive, rest of the team goes East"


    Point is: If your name sucks, it's a) your very own fault and b) I will call you for it, because I've got no other means of adressing you as there are no alternatives provided.

    "See, err, hear you on TeamSpeak, Big ###### dork 666!"


    µµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµ

    Left4Dead is another example of an, albeit smaller (only 4 players), but very strongly co-op and team-oriented game.
    No matter what stupid nicknames the players keep choosing, I call them Bill, Louis, Francis and Zoey if I talk to them on my microphone.
    You can attach yourself to them, because they clearly have something like a visual identity of their own - each of the 4 is unique. It's also a bit of role-playing.

    In NS2 this won't work as easily, because the marines are much more numerous, yet the developers have decided to turn them from an army of clones to customizable characters (if I'm right). Adding a name would help one a lot to attach oneself to the player character. After all, the main difference between a faceless clone from a conveyor belt and a person is.. their name. Clones have numbers, humans have names.
  • blackpiranhablackpiranha Germany Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14375Members, Constellation
    edited October 2009
    So you mean players can choose from pre-set marine names? (i.e from the movie Aliens which we all love of course)

    because custom names bring some problems due to the size of the helmet and the obvious name abuse, that's what i was talking about.
  • locallyunscenelocallyunscene Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1730221:date=Oct 2 2009, 12:11 PM:name=blackpiranha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blackpiranha @ Oct 2 2009, 12:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1730221"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So you mean players can choose from pre-set marine names? (i.e from the movie Aliens which we all love of course)

    because custom names bring some problems due to the size of the helmet and the obvious name abuse, that's what i was talking about.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No, he's saying to <i>not</i> do that and also not worry about whatever stupid name people choose to call themselves.
  • HamletHamlet Join Date: 2008-08-17 Member: 64837Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited October 2009
    I guess a preset would also work fine.
    Interestingly Zoey (who is some kind of preset persona) is much more popular among players than the 3 male characters.

    As I've said in my original posting, in L4D the stupid names simply don't matter.


    And it wouldn't be that bad, would it?
    If there comes a NS2 single player campaign we could be introduced to the Presets.

    Then, in multiplayer, you can choose gender, skin colour, hair colour and face from some pre-made ones. And once you choose a certain face, you get the accompanying name - just as introduced in the single player campaign.
  • friedricekidfriedricekid Join Date: 2009-09-29 Member: 68909Members
    i think a name is a pretty interesting idea. do you think it'd work best on the helmet or on the back?

    i agree that there should be a preset bank of names that's either given randomly or selectable, and if a name is taken, there won't be repeats (so we don't have 4 marines named "WEST")

    i'm sure if it's not preset, it would get annoying. people would abuse it with long or stupid names.. and may be an issue to fit on the helmet/back if the name is too long as someone mentioned. plus i don't know for sure.. but it may look fake? personally, i like it to be as real as possible (obviously not real to life, but in terms of real to the natural selection video game world). i'd personally find it very distracting (albeit funny) if i see marines running around with names on their armor like "kILLeRNIPPLEs_19" or "__ROBO######__" or "dONGs my scHLONGS"... etc
  • magicboommagicboom Join Date: 2009-10-02 Member: 68928Members
    edited October 2009
    First of all,

    I just want to say how much I appreciate your hard work.

    My question is:

    Is there going to be any sort of night vision or thermo vision upgrade for the marines?

    I know that it might seem cheap but it seems like a logical upgrade.

    I also had an interesting idea. Instead of the radar tower effect from NS1, perhaps you could make
    radar an item you wield. This way it forces people to work in squads in which the commander
    designates a radar man who dual wields a radar and a pistol and if he wants to use his rifle, he can't also
    use his radar. I think it would be an interesting dynamic, you would have to really work together and move in
    formation to protect your radar man. The radar man could use voice chat to warn his squad of moving enemies
    and where they are. Or, if you want to make it more convenient, you can have all marines within a certain
    distance of the radarman have a radar screen on their hud, but have it disappear if they separate too far from him.

    I also had an idea about voice chat. What if you can use it normally when you are in the same room in the map
    but when you separate, you obviously use some sort of radio channel. And what if aliens had some sort of way
    to disrupt communication channels. Maybe they can have some sort of organic tower that disrupts signals and what not.
    you could totally have it appear on the hud like 'warning! communications interference' or have a female computer voice
    say it.
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    Please post your ideas in the forum section meant for ideas (and suggestions).
  • magicboommagicboom Join Date: 2009-10-02 Member: 68928Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1730291:date=Oct 2 2009, 08:48 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Oct 2 2009, 08:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1730291"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please post your ideas in the forum section meant for ideas (and suggestions).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    sry, just joined, didn't know. thnx for bringing it to my attention
  • remiremi remedy [blu.knight] Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
    <!--quoteo(post=1730171:date=Oct 2 2009, 12:56 AM:name=Insane)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Insane @ Oct 2 2009, 12:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1730171"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I know what ambient light is, I was merely suggesting that the engine's atmospheric effects were the cause of the lack of true black.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hm, seems that you were right about that contributing. I wonder how those atmospheric effects work.
  • HamletHamlet Join Date: 2008-08-17 Member: 64837Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited October 2009
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i agree that there should be a preset bank of names that's either given randomly or selectable, and if a name is taken, there won't be repeats (so we don't have 4 marines named "WEST")<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    QFT

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i'm sure if it's not preset, it would get annoying. people would abuse it with long or stupid names.. and may be an issue to fit on the helmet/back if the name is too long as someone mentioned. plus i don't know for sure.. but it may look fake? personally, i like it to be as real as possible (obviously not real to life, but in terms of real to the natural selection video game world). i'd personally find it very distracting (albeit funny) if i see marines running around with names on their armor like "kILLeRNIPPLEs_19" or "__ROBO######__" or "dONGs my scHLONGS"... etc<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That would be very easy to implement:
    1) Simply make it all CAPITALS like on the pictures above. So no ###### ChAnGinG ArOuNd.
    2) Then, you disallow all characters that don't belong in a real name like numbers [0,1,2,3...], math signs [+,-,/...], special signs [#.*...].
    -> So you can only use real letters, no BS. If someone doesn't want to stick to the rules, their name simply gets replaced by a generic "TSA" or the Frontiersmann logo. There you go! :)
    3) Also, I would give it a total limit. In the TV series the longest surname was "Damphousse" - which is 10 letters and fitted nicely on the helmet. Let's give it 12 letters max and that should settle it.
  • JAmazonJAmazon Join Date: 2009-02-21 Member: 66503Members
    I think its fine to have it written as is on the armor. If someone decides to name themselves " 8===D" then its going to appear in the tab-screen anyways. So its not a censorship issue. If it gets written on their armor/helmet somewhere then they look like a moron with a penis on their face. In other words, I don't see it getting abused much more than obscene nicks in NS1 right now...which honestly isn't that much.
  • lillbrorsanlillbrorsan Join Date: 2003-08-21 Member: 20060Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Looks really nice, finally i have something new to put on my two desktops :>
  • backfromheavenbackfromheaven Join Date: 2008-08-19 Member: 64852Members
    Very nice job on the first of what probably will be many more or some versions (maybe?) of the frontiersmen. I must suggest though that something, like the HUD hologram described in the post, would add another element to the visual display of the marine and break up his face so people don't have to constantly focus on how good or bad the face texture is. As for the balance of the helmet I do agree the back seems to visually hinder the believability of the device, but if it were shaved a little closer to the head (as in the female marine on the NS2 forum web banner) it would be visually more attractive.
  • necrozimnecrozim Join Date: 2007-07-01 Member: 61453Members
    Im a games student and I was just wondering what resolutions the maps are? these look incredibly detailed, so im guessing the days of 512 maps have passed? or were there 2 maps used? (1 head, 1 armour?"

    I only really ask because ive been told by lecturers that 512 is the standard, most companies use 2 maps for high detail etc etc but if you guys are pushing into the 1024 areas now I can jump aboard too!

    But back to the pics, i cant wait for this game! looks fantastic
  • Squeal_Like_A_PigSqueal_Like_A_Pig Janitor Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 66Members, Super Administrators, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer
    There are 2 maps for the marine. The face and fingers are on one 1024x1024 map and the rest is on a 2048x2048 map. The alien characters are each on a 2048. 2048's are actually pretty standard for main characters in games. There is mip mapping that occurs in game, so depending on the distance of the camera from the character the maps will automatically display lower res versions.

    512 x 512 maps are hardly standard anymore, these days, especially for first person shooters, and its kind of lame if that is what you are being told at your school. Games that are years old, like Unreal Tournament 2 were using 512 maps for the characters. We have noticed before that what is being taught at many schools seems to be very outdated. We constantly get submissions showing portfolio's of very low poly, low res work, clearly created as class assignments, and from talking to various students and recent graduates, there does seem to be a disconnect between what is being taught in the schools and how things are actually done in the industry.

    --Cory
  • glimmermanglimmerman Join Date: 2004-04-29 Member: 28300Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1732124:date=Oct 14 2009, 11:52 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Oct 14 2009, 11:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1732124"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There are 2 maps for the marine. The face and fingers are on one 1024x1024 map and the rest is on a 2048x2048 map. The alien characters are each on a 2048. 2048's are actually pretty standard for main characters in games. There is mip mapping that occurs in game, so depending on the distance of the camera from the character the maps will automatically display lower res versions.

    512 x 512 maps are hardly standard anymore, these days, especially for first person shooters, and its kind of lame if that is what you are being told at your school. Games that are years old, like Unreal Tournament 2 were using 512 maps for the characters. We have noticed before that what is being taught at many schools seems to be very outdated. We constantly get submissions showing portfolio's of very low poly, low res work, clearly created as class assignments, and from talking to various students and recent graduates, there does seem to be a disconnect between what is being taught in the schools and how things are actually done in the industry.

    --Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Im a games student and I was just wondering what resolutions the maps are? these look incredibly detailed, so im guessing the days of 512 maps have passed? or were there 2 maps used? (1 head, 1 armour?"

    I only really ask because ive been told by lecturers that 512 is the standard, most companies use 2 maps for high detail etc etc but if you guys are pushing into the 1024 areas now I can jump aboard too!

    But back to the pics, i cant wait for this game! looks fantastic<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    sucks to go to your school.
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